## Monday, September 15, 2014

### Spells Through The Ages – Walls of Ice and Fire

The 4th-level wizard spells wall of fire and wall of ice first appear on the same page of Original D&D, Vol-1 (p. 26). At first blush you'd expect them to be simply symmetric in regards to range, duration, area, and effect, but they never are in any edition (with one possible exception). As we investigate this, we get to ask this math puzzle: Is 2 square inches the same as 2 inches square? And did Gygax answer that question correctly? (Please jot down your response before proceeding. All set? Good...)

### Original D&D

Wall of Fire: The spell will create a wall of fire which lasts until the Magic-User no longer concentrates to maintain it. The fire wall is opaque. It prevents creatures with under four hit dice from entering/passing through. Undead will take two dice of damage (2-12) and other creatures one die (1-6) when breaking through the fire. The shape of the wall can be either a plane of up to 6" width and 2" in height, or it can be cast in a circle of 3" diameter and 2" in height. Range: 6".

Wall of Ice: A spell to create a wall of ice six inches thick, in dimensions like that of a Wall of Fire. It negates the effects of creatures employing fire and/or fire spells. It may be broken through by creatures with four or more hit dice, with damage equal to one die (1-6) for non-fire employing creatures and double that for fire-users. Range: 12"

At their inception, the area and effect of these spells are identical (6" plane or 3" diameter cicle; base damage 1-6, doubled for those specially vulnerable). But the range is different: only 6" for the fire wall but 12" for the ice wall. And the duration is very different: by concentration for fire but unspecified, possibly permanent (?) for wall of ice.

Why the difference? Wall of fire is one of only three spells in OD&D that have a constant-concentration requirement (the others being phantasmal force and conjure elemental). In my games, I find that makes the spell very hard to use, as a high-level wizard can't afford to spend time inactive just to maintain this one spell (useless to block a passage and escape, for example). I suppose you might argue that a wall of fire requires sustained input of energy to keep it going (as opposed to ice that can just sit there), but in my book that violates the Vancian interpretation of magic (energy comes from outside the caster), and what about the case of continual light?

I could kind of see the fire duration as being generally shorter than ice, if in exchange the ranges were correspondingly reversed; but the wall of fire is also given the shorter range of 6". Proclus specifically identified fire as being "sharp, subtle, and mobile", so I would think if anything it should be given the longer range. This situation is very hard to puzzle out, and makes wall of fire surprisingly difficult to use in-game as written.

### Swords & Spells

Wall of Fire: [Range] 6", [Area of Effect] 6"×2" or 3" dia., [Turn Duration] until dispelled.
Wall of Ice: [Range] 6", [Area of Effect] 6"×2" or 3" dia., [Turn Duration] until dispelled.

Here we check in on the Swords & Spells table of spell effects and areas (link), and we note something intriguing -- in this work Gygax made them identical in all the ways we can see. The wall of ice range has been reduced to 6". The wall of fire duration has been increased to "until dispelled" (usually, but not always, signifying a permanent spell). That solves several of the discrepancies seen in Vol-1 above, but perhaps sadly, these corrective points were not used in any later editions. It's possible to argue that even here they might be the result of an oversight or transcription error while copying them from Vol-1.

### Expert D&D

Wall of Fire
Range: 60'
Duration: special

This spell creates a thin wall of fire of up to 1200 square feet. The wall can be in any shape the caster desires (a straight wall 60' long and 20' high, a circle 20' diameter and 20' high, etc.). The wall is opaque and will block sight. Creatures of less than 4 hit dice cannot break through the wall. Creatures of 4 or more hit dice can break through but will take 1-6 (d6) points of damage — twice this amount (2d6) if they are undead or cold-using creatures (white dragons, frost giants). The wall cannot be cast in a space occupied by another object. The wall lasts as long as the caster remains stationary and concentrates on it.

Wall of Ice

Range: 120'
Duration: 12 turns

This spell creates a translucent wall of ice 20' tall and 60' long (or any other shape the caster desires). Creatures of less than 4 hit dice cannot break through the wall. Creatures of 4 or more hit dice can break through the wall but will take 1-6 (Id6) points of damage — twice that amount (2d6) if fire-using creature (red dragon, salamanders, hell hounds, etc.). It must be cast to rest on the ground or similar support and cannot be cast in a space occupied by another object.

In the Cook D&D Expert rules, the two spells are duplicated mostly as they were in OD&D Vol-1, ignoring the changes listed in Swords & Spells. Wall of fire has the short range and duration by concentration, etc. Cook also makes the area more flexible, granting the ability to be shaped any way the caster chooses, so long as surface area remains the same (as he does for all the wall spells: see also wall of stone); in this regard, he shrinks the the circular diameter so the circumference more correctly matches the straight-line length (C = πd ≈ 3(20) = 60 feet), showing again the B/X authors' fine awareness of the math involved. However, this greater flexibility does possibly make the spell more complicated to use, and it's a move for which Gygax never explicitly gives permission.

Wall of Fire (Evocation)
Level: 5
Range: 8"
Duration: Special
Area of Effect: Special
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 7 segments
Saving Throw: None

Explanation/Description: The wall of fire spell brings forth a blazing curtain of magical fire of shimmering color - yellow-green or amber in case of druidical magic. The wall of fire inflicts 4 to 16 hit points of damage, plus 1 hit point of damage per level of the spell caster, upon any creature passing through it. Creatures within 1" of the wall take 2-8 hit points of damage, those within 2" take 1-4 hit points of damage. Creatures especially subject to fire may take additional damage, and undead always take twice normal damage. Only the side of the wall away from the spell caster will inflict damage. The opaque wall of fire lasts for as long as the druid concentrates on maintaining it, or 1 round per level of experience of the druid in the event he or she does not wish to concentrate upon it. The spell creates a sheet of flame up to 2" square per level of the spell caster, or as a ring with a radius of up to ½" per level of experience from the druid to its flames, and a height of 2". The former is stationary, while the latter moves as the druid moves.

Wall Of Fire (Evocation)
Level: 4
Range: 6"
Duration: Special
Area of Effect: Special
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 4 segments
Saving Throw: None

Explanation/Description: This spell differs from the fifth level druid spell, wall of fire (q.v.) only as indicated above and as stated below: the flame color is either violet or reddish blue, base damage is 2-12 hit points (plus 1 hit point per level), the radius of the ring-shaped wall of fire is 1" + 1/4" per level of experience of the magic user casting it, and the material component of the spell is phosphorus.

Wall Of Ice (Evocation)
Level: 4
Range: l"/level
Duration: 1 turn/level
Area of Effect: Special
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 4 segments
Saving Throw: None

Explanation/Description: When this spell is cast, a sheet of strong, flexible ice is created. The wall is primarily defensive, stopping pursuers and the like. The wall is one inch thick per level of experience of the magic-user. It covers a 1" square area per level, i.e. a 10th level magic-user would cause a wall of ice up to 10" long and 1" high, or 5" long and 2" high, and so forth. Any creature breaking through the ice will suffer 2 hit points of damage per inch of thickness of the wall, fire-using creatures will suffer 3 hit points, cold-using creatures only 1 hit point when breaking through. If this spell is cast to form a horizontal sheet to fall upon opponents, it has the same effect as an ice storm's (q.v.) hail stones in the area over which it falls. Magical fires such as fireballs and fiery dragon breath will melt a wall of ice in 1 round, though they will cause a great cloud of steamy fog which will last 1 turn, but normal fires or lesser magical ones will not hasten its melting. The material component of this spell is a small piece of quartz or similar rock crystal.

In Advanced D&D, the first quote above is from the druid spell list, with the magic-user version that follows referencing it, being almost but not exactly the same (for example, the specified color changes, of all things). Before I say anything else, I have to point out how cumbersome this back-referencing of spells is in AD&D. It actually works fine for OD&D, which is so short that linked spells are usually sitting immediately next to each other on the same page. But as the game expands, bloats, and separates linked spells by 20 pages or so (as in this case), then it's a method that is no longer tenable.

Now, as usual in AD&D, the range, duration, and area have all become variable calculations based on the caster's level, which serves to obscure a few things. The wizard wall of fire is still oddly fixed at the short 6" range, while wall of ice is the longer 12" for a nominal 12th-level wizard. Looking at the druidic wall of fire, we can see that Gygax started to waffle on the concentration requirement, without completely overhauling it, making the duration a complex concentration + 1 round/level within the text. The spell does increased damage (base 2d6+level), with cases added for standing close by in different ranges; so does wall of ice, at 2 points/level, for some 24 points for a stock 12th-level wizard. Another important edit: Where OD&D had a 4 HD minimum restriction on those who could break through either wall, that has been removed in AD&D (so apparently anyone can move in and choose to get burned up).

The area for wall of ice is very close to that in OD&D (1" square/level: so the basic 12th-level wizard can make a 6"×2" wall, just as in OD&D). But what I'd really like to look at is the revised area to wall of fire, for which you have to look at the druidic listing: the planar version says it's a "2 inch square per level of the spell caster".

Now, I hope you answered the quiz question at the top of the post correctly: No, of course 2 square inches is not the same as 2 inches square. The latter, meaning a 2-inch square, is actually 4 square inches in surface area:

But there is evidence that Gygax wasn't aware of this geometric distinction. For example: Looking at the wall of stone spell, in OD&D he specified its area as "10 square inches" (Vol-1, p. 28), while in Swords & Spells he wrote it as "10 inches (square)" (S&S, p. 13), which is technically a tenfold increase in area. In fact, he wrote it like that for every entry in Swords & Spells that was square-inches in OD&D, suggesting strongly that he thought they were the same thing. Again in the AD&D listing for wall of stone, he includes an illuminating example (1E PHB, p. 82):

The wall of stone is 1/4' thick and 20' square in area per level of experience of the magic-user casting the spell. Thus, a 12th level magic-user creates a wall of stone 3' thick and 240 square feet in surface area (a 12' wide and 20' high wall, for example, to completely close a 10' × 16' passage).

Note that while the rule says "20' square" (which would be 20×20 = 400 square feet per level), the example applies the different value of 20 square feet per level, giving the 12th level wizard only 240 square feet in area (barely covering a standard Gygaxian 10×16 foot arched dungeon corridor, as noted).

Back to the wall of fire case. What he explicitly wrote was "2 inch square per level", so the example 12th-level wizard could make a wall 12×2 inch squares = 24" long × 2" high, for example; quadruple what it was in OD&D, S&S, or B/X. But if we look to our evidence and stipulate that he meant to be writing "2 square inches per level", then the 12th-level wizard would get a sheet of fire 12×2 = 24 square inches = 12" × 2"; merely double what it was in OD&D, et. al. Now see what happens with that in 2E...

Wall of Fire
(Evocation)
Range: 60 yds.
Duration: Special
Area of Effect: Special

The wall of fire spell brings forth an immobile, blazing curtain of magical fire of shimmering color--violet or reddish blue. The spell creates either an opaque sheet of flame up to one 20-foot square per level of the spellcaster, or a ring with a radius of up to 10 feet + 5 feet per two levels of experience of the wizard. In either form, the wall of fire is 20 feet high.

The wall of fire must be cast so that it is vertical with respect to the caster. One side of the wall, selected by the caster, sends forth waves of heat, inflicting 2d4 points of damage upon creatures within 10 feet and 1d4 points of damage upon those within 20 feet. In addition, the wall inflicts 2d6 points of damage, plus 1 point of damage per level of the spellcaster, upon any creature passing through it. Creatures especially subject to fire may take additional damage, and undead always take twice normal damage. Note that attempting to catch a moving creature with a newly-created wall of fire is difficult; a successful saving throw enables the creature to avoid the wall, while its rate and direction of movement determine which side of the created wall it is on. The wall of fire lasts as long as the wizard concentrates on maintaining it, or one round per level of experience of the wizard, in the event he does not wish to concentrate upon it.

The material component of the spell is phosphorus.

Wall of Ice
(Evocation)
Range: 10 yds./level
Duration: 1 turn/level
Area of Effect: Special

This spell can be cast in one of three ways: as an anchored plane of ice, as a hemisphere, or as a horizontal sheet to fall upon creatures with the effect of an ice storm.

A) Ice plane. When this spell is cast, a sheet of strong, hard ice is created. The wall is primarily defensive, stopping pursuers and the like. The wall is 1 inch thick per level of experience of the wizard. It covers a 10-foot-square area per level (a 10th-level wizard can create a wall of ice 100 feet long and 10 feet high, a wall 50 feet long and 20 feet high, etc.). Any creature breaking through the ice suffers 2 points of damage per inch of thickness of the wall. Fire-using creatures suffer 3 points of damage per inch, while cold using creatures suffer only 1 point of damage per inch when breaking through. The plane can be oriented in any fashion as long as it is anchored along one or more sides.

B) Hemisphere. This casting of the spell creates a hemisphere whose maximum radius is equal to 3 feet plus 1 foot per caster level. Thus, a 7th-level caster can create a hemisphere 10 feet in radius. The hemisphere lasts until it is broken, dispelled, or melted. Note that it is possible, but difficult, to trap mobile opponents under the hemisphere.

C) Ice sheet. This casting of the spell causes a horizontal sheet to fall upon opponents. The sheet covers a 10-foot-square area per caster level. The sheet has the same effect as an ice storm's hail stones--3d10 points of damage inflicted to creatures beneath it. A wall of ice cannot form in an area occupied by physical objects or creatures; its surface must be smooth and unbroken when created. Magical fires such as fireballs and fiery dragon breath melt a wall of ice in one round, though this creates a great cloud of steamy fog that lasts one turn. Normal fires or lesser magical ones do not hasten the melting of a wall of ice.

The material component of this spell is a small piece of quartz or similar rock crystal.

In the 2E game, as usual, Dave "Zeb" Cook  keeps these spells basically the same in terms of range (fire short/ice long), duration (fire concentration/ice fire-and-forget), and effect (several different cases for determining damage). While he doesn't completely open-door all possible shapes as he did in Expert D&D, he explicates three different shapes for wall of ice, including the new trapping "hemisphere" option explicated for the first time (we might guess as the result of a creative player in one of his games).

For wall of fire, he takes Gygax for his word in 1E, and keeps the area at the very large value of a "20-foot square per level of the spellcaster" (i.e., quadrupled from OD&D). Note that in distinction to this, Cook does correct other places that had a contradicting example, such as the wall of stone spell -- shown below, in which the "20' square" text has been fixed to "20 square feet" (compare to 1E description above):
The wall of stone is 0.25 inch thick and up to 20 square feet per level of experience of the wizard casting the spell. Thus, a 12th-level wizard can create a wall of stone 3 inches thick and up to 240 square feet in surface area (a 12-foot-wide and 20-foot-high wall, for example, to completely close a 10-foot x 16-foot passage).

But with wall of fire, there was no clarifying example, and so without any clue for him to pick up on (unlike the other spells which he does correct), Cook unintentionally cements into the rules the quadruple-area wall of fire which was likely a typo by Gygax in 1E. (As an aside, note that by going in the other direction on the issue, the areas of the wall of iron and wall of stone spells are actually much smaller in AD&D than they were back in OD&D.)

### D&D 3rd Ed.

Wall of Fire
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Drd 5, Fire 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Opaque sheet of flame up to 20 ft. long/caster level or a ring of fire with a radius of up to 5 ft./two caster levels; either form 20 ft. high
Duration: Concentration + 1 round/level
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

An immobile, blazing curtain of shimmering violet fire springs into existence. One side of the wall, selected by the character, sends forth waves of heat, dealing 2d4 points of fire damage to creatures within 10 feet and 1d4 points of fire damage to those past 10 feet but within 20 feet. The wall deals this damage when it appears and each round that a creature enters or remains in the area. In addition, the wall deals 2d6 points of fire damage +1 point of fire damage per caster level (maximum +20) to any creature passing through it. The wall deals double damage to undead creatures.

If the character evokes the wall so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall. Each such creature can avoid the wall by making a successful Reflex save. (If the creature ends up on the hot side of the wall, it takes 2d4 points of damage, as normal.)

If any 5-foot length of wall takes 20 points of cold damage or more in 1 round, that length goes out. (Do not divide cold damage by 4, as normal for objects.)

Wall of Ice
Evocation [Cold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Anchored plane of ice, up to one 10-ft. square/level, or hemisphere of ice with a radius of up to 3 ft. +1 ft./level
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell creates an anchored plane of ice or a hemisphere of ice, depending on the version selected. A wall of ice cannot form in an area occupied by physical objects or creatures. Its surface must be smooth and unbroken when created. Fire can melt a wall of ice. It deals full damage to the wall (instead of the normal half damage suffered by objects). Suddenly melting the wall of ice creates a great cloud of steamy fog that lasts for 10 minutes.

Ice Plane: A sheet of strong, hard ice appears. The wall is 1 inch thick per caster level. It covers up to a 10-foot-square area per caster level (so a 10th-level wizard can create a wall of ice 100 feet long and 10 feet high, a wall 50 feet long and 20 feet high, etc.). The plane can be oriented in any fashion as long as it is anchored. A vertical wall need only be anchored on the floor, while a horizontal or slanting wall must be anchored on two opposite sides.

Each 10-foot square of wall has 3 hit points per inch of thickness. Creatures can hit the wall automatically. A section of wall whose hit points drop to 0 is breached. If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 15 + caster level.

Even when the ice has been broken through, a sheet of frigid air remains. Any creature stepping through it (including the one who broke through the wall) takes 1d6 points of cold damage +1 point per caster level.

Hemisphere: The wall takes the form of a hemisphere whose maximum radius is 3 feet +1 foot per caster level. It is as hard to break through as the ice plane form, but it does not deal damage to those who go through a breach.

The character can create the hemisphere so that it traps one or more creatures, though these creatures can avoid being trapped by the hemisphere by making successful Reflex saves.

In 3E, for the first time since Swords & Spells, the two 4th-level wall spells are given equivalent ranges (Medium, or 200 feet for a 10th-level wizard). Wall of fire retains its wonky legacy of concentration + 1 round/level for duration, while wall of ice is massively reduced to 1 minute/level (recall it was 1 turn/level, i.e. 10 minutes/level in AD&D; and apparently permanent back in OD&D and S&S). Wall of ice commendably snips out the "horizontal sheet" attack that crashes down on opponents.

But of course the areas are the same as in 2E, particularly wall of fire, which again retains the after-effect of what I think was a geometric error by Gygax back in 1E AD&D (i.e., a misunderstanding that "square inches" ≠ "inches square"). And so we again see a massive wall of fire that has four times the area as compared to wall of ice, whereas they started with identical areas back in OD&D.

### Open Questions

What are your preferred versions of wall of fire and wall of ice? Should they have identical range, area, etc.? Are you as aggravated as I am by wall of fire's concentration requirement? And are you convinced that the giant-sized wall of fire is a result of Gygax's units typo back in 1E?

- Keep them different. Or make ALL the walls spells the same in regard range, area etc. (If anything I think wall of Fire/ Wall of Cold would be "mirror"; intangible, energy not physical, etc.)
- Yes, since as a DM I missed that and let a player get away with running the wall lengthwise down a narrow corridor for X number of rounds while they ran.
-Sooooo many arguments at the table. There is at least one advantage to 4e's generic "squares".

1. Yes, I think my instinct is to make everything about them totally parallel (well, keeping physical ice). That clears out forgettable concentration requirement to the wall of fire.

2. This comment has been removed by the author.

3. Thanks for enumerating these!

I recall that I had difficulty figuring out which way it–the square inches vs. inches square– thing was intended from the rules. I think you'll find that same ambiguity in other spells and rules, though.

I don't mind the concentration requirement, coupled with the short duration after concentration lapses. The wall of ice requires some creative effort on the part of the player to use it successfully in combat and I see no problem with making it "permanent", but subject to melting, by normal or other means.

D&D rules are combat-oriented, as a result of that focus spells that are immediately useful in combat often carry a higher "cost" or more restrictions than a spell that might be more powerful in other ways.

Just my \$0.02

1. The concentration + delay really aggravates me; one or the other can be okay, but mixing the two I feel is really sloppy, cranky design. ("A compromise means no one's happy".) I really feel that both are about as useful, just the fire is barrier due to threat, ice a barrier due to physical blockade.

4. @ Delta:

Sheesh...the "square feet" versus "feet square" is the kind of thing I'd confuse, too. I had to go back and check my various "wall" spells (I have three) in 5AK to see if my text is correct. Thankfully, they look okay (*whew*).

I don't recall any uses of Wall of Ice...it would've been cool if you could catch people in it (like a web spell...but colder).
; )

Spells with "concentration" durations have always been problematic, because (in the heat of battle) we've often forgotten the limitation. My preference (for D&D) is the more flexible, B/X version...but my own wall of fire spell is limited to a "curtain" as that's appropriate for the setting.

1. Glad it helped motivate you to double-check. :-)

5. It makes sense to me that the ice wall will last until it melts. If you cast it in winter, it will last until spring, if you cast it in summer, it will last 12 turns. If you build a fire next to it or a dragon breathes on it, then it melts faster.

The bit about damaging creatures that pass through the ice wall doesn't make much sense unless we include the bit from 3e about a zone of magical cold within the ice. So basically, it's a solid wall, you have to smash or melt a gap in it to pass. But until the entire wall melts, there's still a zone of lethal magic cold filling the gap, which will damage you if you try to walk through. The magical cold zone will also extinguish any fires - torches, fireballs, dragon breath, etc - that pass through it.

Ice can last forever if the temperature stays low, but fire always burns out eventually. So I'd say that Wall of Fire lasts as long as you give it fuel, minimum 6 turns. Cast it on ground covered with dead leaves and fallen branches and it'll last for a day. Cast it in a bare stone dungeon hallway and it lasts 6 turns. Plus, I'd grant it the same power to extinguish cold attacks as the ice spell does fire attacks. So cone of cold, ice storm, white dragon breath, etc, are completely extinguished if they pass through it.

1. Most of that's sort of reasonable. I'm not hugely fond of duration based on the "fuel" because it falls outside most spells have a well-defined number in the description; and something that wide-open demanding adjudication can easily go awry in play. I'm also not fond of the "energy cold zone" because it seems like you're getting double-benefit (physical barrier, plus cold zone after). My own interpretation leans towards being "showered in ice shards" (damage) for the person breaking a hole, and then others can freely pass through after. So wall of fire stops no one physically but damages all, while wall of ice physically stops all until one person makes a hole and takes damage.

6. Have you considered moving forward in comparing the fifth edition versions of these spells?

1. I haven't. My impression is that circa 3.5 the designers felt free to scuttle the prior work and rewrite anything and everything, so the exercise of the common threads may fall apart at that point. I'm not playing 4 or 5E so my knowledge there is much thinner than early editions.

2. As a basis for comparison I would say you are correct, little need to go beyond 3.5.
But I have found the approach to 5th ed spells handy Idea fuel. At least the ones presented in the free online basic set.

7. Yes, "modern" mechanical features, designed to represent the spells as they once were. Who knows what was going on with 4th edition. 5th might bear looking at.

The damage is higher, because the hit point totals are higher, and only one concentration spell can be cast at any time (but it allows casting other spells while maintained)—It's actually interesting how many older versions of D&D they took their ideas from.

Ref:
Wall of Fire
4th-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S, M (a small piece of phosphorus)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
You create a wall o f fire on a solid surface within range. You can make the wall up to 60 feet long, 20 feet high, and 1 foot thick, or a ringed wall up to 20 feet in diameter, 20 feet high, and 1 foot thick. The wall is opaque and lasts for the duration. When the wall appears, each creature within its area must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 5d8 fire damage, or half as much damage on a successful save.
One side o f the wall, selected by you when you cast this spell, deals 5d8 fire damage to each creature that ends its turn within 10 feet of that side or inside the wall. A creature takes the same damage when it enters the wall for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there. The other side of the wall deals no damage.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 4th.

1. Interesting, thanks for pointing that out. When I initially scanned the 5E document the class background stuff got me crossing my eyes, and the spells I checked out (sleep, magic missile, fireball) weren't really what I'd want to play with.

[deleted] Other stuff about 5E before I derail this too much. Thanks! :-)