tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post6913787860067099865..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Spells Through The Ages – Walls of Ice and FireDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-27103402910839460982014-09-18T11:53:50.610-04:002014-09-18T11:53:50.610-04:00Interesting, thanks for pointing that out. When I ...Interesting, thanks for pointing that out. When I initially scanned the 5E document the class background stuff got me crossing my eyes, and the spells I checked out (sleep, magic missile, fireball) weren't really what I'd want to play with.<br /><br />[deleted] Other stuff about 5E before I derail this too much. Thanks! :-)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-48410570095847445732014-09-17T14:01:13.886-04:002014-09-17T14:01:13.886-04:00Yes, "modern" mechanical features, desig...Yes, "modern" mechanical features, designed to represent the spells as they once were. Who knows what was going on with 4th edition. 5th might bear looking at. <br /><br />The damage is higher, because the hit point totals are higher, and only one concentration spell can be cast at any time (but it allows casting other spells while maintained)—It's actually interesting how many older versions of D&D they took their ideas from.<br /><br />Ref: <br />Wall of Fire<br />4th-level evocation<br />Casting Time: 1 action<br />Range: 120 feet<br />Components: V, S, M (a small piece of phosphorus)<br />Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute<br />You create a wall o f fire on a solid surface within range. You can make the wall up to 60 feet long, 20 feet high, and 1 foot thick, or a ringed wall up to 20 feet in diameter, 20 feet high, and 1 foot thick. The wall is opaque and lasts for the duration. When the wall appears, each creature within its area must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 5d8 fire damage, or half as much damage on a successful save.<br />One side o f the wall, selected by you when you cast this spell, deals 5d8 fire damage to each creature that ends its turn within 10 feet of that side or inside the wall. A creature takes the same damage when it enters the wall for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there. The other side of the wall deals no damage. <br />At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 4th.-Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331863932906631618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-81474094956300286222014-09-17T13:01:44.957-04:002014-09-17T13:01:44.957-04:00As a basis for comparison I would say you are corr...As a basis for comparison I would say you are correct, little need to go beyond 3.5. <br />But I have found the approach to 5th ed spells handy Idea fuel. At least the ones presented in the free online basic set.Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-77921405448814980922014-09-17T11:05:42.348-04:002014-09-17T11:05:42.348-04:00I haven't. My impression is that circa 3.5 the...I haven't. My impression is that circa 3.5 the designers felt free to scuttle the prior work and rewrite anything and everything, so the exercise of the common threads may fall apart at that point. I'm not playing 4 or 5E so my knowledge there is much thinner than early editions.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-69743128821253699842014-09-17T05:07:06.644-04:002014-09-17T05:07:06.644-04:00Have you considered moving forward in comparing th...Have you considered moving forward in comparing the fifth edition versions of these spells?-Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331863932906631618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-1803943657732564432014-09-16T01:22:25.715-04:002014-09-16T01:22:25.715-04:00Most of that's sort of reasonable. I'm not...Most of that's sort of reasonable. I'm not hugely fond of duration based on the "fuel" because it falls outside most spells have a well-defined number in the description; and something that wide-open demanding adjudication can easily go awry in play. I'm also not fond of the "energy cold zone" because it seems like you're getting double-benefit (physical barrier, plus cold zone after). My own interpretation leans towards being "showered in ice shards" (damage) for the person breaking a hole, and then others can freely pass through after. So wall of fire stops no one physically but damages all, while wall of ice physically stops all until one person makes a hole and takes damage.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-42327278515125670622014-09-16T01:18:19.244-04:002014-09-16T01:18:19.244-04:00Glad it helped motivate you to double-check. :-)Glad it helped motivate you to double-check. :-)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-85003000797550004922014-09-16T01:17:33.769-04:002014-09-16T01:17:33.769-04:00The concentration + delay really aggravates me; on...The concentration + delay really aggravates me; one or the other can be okay, but mixing the two I feel is really sloppy, cranky design. ("A compromise means no one's happy".) I really feel that both are about as useful, just the fire is barrier due to threat, ice a barrier due to physical blockade.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-59031702730403675262014-09-16T01:15:18.089-04:002014-09-16T01:15:18.089-04:00Yes, I think my instinct is to make everything abo...Yes, I think my instinct is to make everything about them totally parallel (well, keeping physical ice). That clears out forgettable concentration requirement to the wall of fire.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-84502399247427122222014-09-15T17:57:43.817-04:002014-09-15T17:57:43.817-04:00It makes sense to me that the ice wall will last u...It makes sense to me that the ice wall will last until it melts. If you cast it in winter, it will last until spring, if you cast it in summer, it will last 12 turns. If you build a fire next to it or a dragon breathes on it, then it melts faster. <br /><br />The bit about damaging creatures that pass through the ice wall doesn't make much sense unless we include the bit from 3e about a zone of magical cold within the ice. So basically, it's a solid wall, you have to smash or melt a gap in it to pass. But until the entire wall melts, there's still a zone of lethal magic cold filling the gap, which will damage you if you try to walk through. The magical cold zone will also extinguish any fires - torches, fireballs, dragon breath, etc - that pass through it.<br /><br />Ice can last forever if the temperature stays low, but fire always burns out eventually. So I'd say that Wall of Fire lasts as long as you give it fuel, minimum 6 turns. Cast it on ground covered with dead leaves and fallen branches and it'll last for a day. Cast it in a bare stone dungeon hallway and it lasts 6 turns. Plus, I'd grant it the same power to extinguish cold attacks as the ice spell does fire attacks. So cone of cold, ice storm, white dragon breath, etc, are completely extinguished if they pass through it.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-73125204721380296992014-09-15T10:05:37.094-04:002014-09-15T10:05:37.094-04:00@ Delta:
Sheesh...the "square feet" ver...@ Delta:<br /><br />Sheesh...the "square feet" versus "feet square" is the kind of thing I'd confuse, too. I had to go back and check my various "wall" spells (I have three) in 5AK to see if my text is correct. Thankfully, they look okay (*whew*).<br /><br />I don't recall any uses of Wall of Ice...it would've been cool if you could catch people in it (like a web spell...but colder).<br />; )<br /><br />Spells with "concentration" durations have always been problematic, because (in the heat of battle) we've often forgotten the limitation. My preference (for D&D) is the more flexible, B/X version...but my own wall of fire spell is limited to a "curtain" as that's appropriate for the setting.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-4862593213399598492014-09-15T09:41:52.971-04:002014-09-15T09:41:52.971-04:00Thanks for enumerating these!
I recall that I had...Thanks for enumerating these!<br /><br />I recall that I had difficulty figuring out which way it–the square inches vs. inches square– thing was intended from the rules. I think you'll find that same ambiguity in other spells and rules, though.<br /><br />I don't mind the concentration requirement, coupled with the short duration after concentration lapses. The wall of ice requires some creative effort on the part of the player to use it successfully in combat and I see no problem with making it "permanent", but subject to melting, by normal or other means.<br /><br />D&D rules are combat-oriented, as a result of that focus spells that are immediately useful in combat often carry a higher "cost" or more restrictions than a spell that might be more powerful in other ways.<br /><br />Just my $0.02gregarious monkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395307601332415834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-63315275438999108832014-09-15T09:40:46.576-04:002014-09-15T09:40:46.576-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.gregarious monkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395307601332415834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-69061293349132368782014-09-15T09:06:35.390-04:002014-09-15T09:06:35.390-04:00To answer:
- Keep them different. Or make ALL the ...To answer:<br />- Keep them different. Or make ALL the walls spells the same in regard range, area etc. (If anything I think wall of Fire/ Wall of Cold would be "mirror"; intangible, energy not physical, etc.)<br />- Yes, since as a DM I missed that and let a player get away with running the wall lengthwise down a narrow corridor for X number of rounds while they ran.<br />-Sooooo many arguments at the table. There is at least one advantage to 4e's generic "squares".Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.com