tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post4412335737449607336..comments2024-03-15T11:16:44.045-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Fireworks in the Hall of the Fire GiantsDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-38599486661456126642016-07-13T09:44:10.791-04:002016-07-13T09:44:10.791-04:00Because of the rest of the weekend, I could only b...Because of the rest of the weekend, I could only be there Thursday, when there was basically just a skeleton crew. Hopefully in the future I can be there on better days. :-)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-51145741227634437882016-07-13T09:43:22.141-04:002016-07-13T09:43:22.141-04:00I love me some high level play! :-)I love me some high level play! :-)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-45878327370948793352016-07-13T09:42:07.470-04:002016-07-13T09:42:07.470-04:001. Not good ones, not in any civilized area that h...1. Not good ones, not in any civilized area that humans would frequent. Indeed, the only reason I put any qualifier on that is so that I don't have to modify the modules. (At one point I was going through and replacing them with evil fighter/wizards, but it was just too much work.)<br /><br />2. It hasn't made a big practical difference so far; esp., since I'm always running short convention-style events. <br /><br />3. Well, I think in the classic pulp style I want it to be at least ambiguous whether deities are extant or not. If I start a "list of deities in the campaign", then (a) that's more work, (b) it signals to players that they're really a thing, and (c) it's more mental energy players need to parse that. So the whole thing seems a bit like a distraction.<br /><br />Among the options for my campaign is a pure Lovecraftian conception that there are alien "gods" who are exclusively secret, unknowable, inherently destructive, and always inimical to mankind. Of course, humans/PC's won't know who they are and can't use them for moral guideposts of any sort. Fortunately, this is playably compatible with Gygax's modules (e.g., among the "most immediate influences" in Appendix N; ENWorld Q&A where he would most often cite Howard & Lovecraft as the top influences on the game.) Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-75565199163337676322016-07-12T14:16:59.328-04:002016-07-12T14:16:59.328-04:00Argh! Can't believe I missed you at Dexcon.Argh! Can't believe I missed you at Dexcon.Greyhawk Grognardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13929743865700766901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-74115063321982558902016-07-12T12:25:30.609-04:002016-07-12T12:25:30.609-04:00Excellent recap, and sounds like you had some grou...Excellent recap, and sounds like you had some groups that pulled off some very high level play! Always a great thing! Thanks!LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-9525642595432888792016-07-12T11:30:53.738-04:002016-07-12T11:30:53.738-04:00Regarding clerics and alignment:
1. Do you use NP...Regarding clerics and alignment:<br /><br />1. Do you use NPC clerics in your games? If not, do you ever have to modify the modules? If so, how? (E.g., replace NPC cleric with a normal man with healing poultices?)<br /><br />2. Does the lack of existence of gods affect the back-stories / flavor text of the Greyhawk modules you run, or is that just a non-issue because play focuses on tactical missions?<br /><br />3. Regarding alignment and religion: even if deities don't exist in your campaign, you could still use the allegiance conception of alignment, in one of two ways:<br /><br />a. Deities don't exist, but characters pledge allegiance to putative deities based on their alignment: celestial beings for lawful, elemental beings for neutral, infernal beings for chaotic. Compare to our own world, where the lack of real existence of gods and spirits does not prevent people from creating identities around allegiance to them!<br /><br />b. Deities don't exist, but spirits or extraplanar beings do, and they come in different categories or flavors which could serve as the basis for alignment. So, chaotic beings are allied with demons, lawful beings opposed, and neutral beings vary based on the situation or self-interest. (When I invoked McKinney above, I was not indeed suggesting Cthulhu in particular as the basis for alignment in Greyhawk or other D&D campaigns, but rather whatever demonic beings stand as an approximate equivalent in the setting in question. Gygax's Greyhawk is full of demons and dark gods!) Jon Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15483110614579754014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-62323501595922660992016-07-12T10:29:36.987-04:002016-07-12T10:29:36.987-04:00Yeah, in the Anderson/Moorcock sense I would want ...Yeah, in the Anderson/Moorcock sense I would want to focus on a single one of those interpretations. However, I can't hang my hat on deities because (in the pulp sense) they aren't provably extant, and there are no good clerics with any supernatural powers or contacts. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-85939890984520211422016-07-12T10:26:06.606-04:002016-07-12T10:26:06.606-04:00Thanks! And good observations.
1. As you can see ...Thanks! And good observations.<br /><br />1. As you can see here, my teleport almost resulted in scattering the party irreparably (another party wizard considered teleporting away to search for him, which would have been truly shenanigans). Plus there are wandering monster checks vs. the lone wizard. Note the range varies by familiarity level: well-known it's 1d6 leagues off on failure (easily walkable), general is 1d6×10 (overland adventure), vague is 1d6×100 (right continent, at least). So the idea is that it opens up more adventuring possibilities instead of restricting them by insta-death (e.g., see Vance's Cugel). No one complained about this (although I was trying to pick up the action with the party split here). <br /><br />2. It gets used regularly, but no one commented on being surprised by it. I think it this point (a) expert players are used to it, and (b) newer players don't know any different, because classic "extension" is such a non-entity they've never seen or heard of it being used. <br /><br />3. I also have Cthluhu = chaos in my head, definitely. However that's at a bit cross-purposes in my game where I don't have clerics or official recognition that deities are extant in the first place (see sidebar). So it did distract at least one player when I said it mid-game this weekend. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-25020777968755669872016-07-12T10:13:08.644-04:002016-07-12T10:13:08.644-04:00I definitely that Cthulhu = Chaos equivalence in m...I definitely that Cthulhu = Chaos equivalence in my head, that's for sure. Side note: I myself was completely agog the find that Goodman's Dungeon Crawl Classics asserts that Cthulhu is a Neutral deity. <br /><br />Glad if the multi-dice rolling helps your game!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-60196120702915776012016-07-12T09:20:53.138-04:002016-07-12T09:20:53.138-04:00I see alignment as having metaphysical and mundane...I see alignment as having metaphysical and mundane aspects. <br /><br />Metaphysical: There's a cosmic struggle between law and chaos. Divine powers are allied with Law, infernal powers with Chaos. Relevant to mortals only when they have to interact with the higher powers or with their minions. High level spell casters have to pick a side, as with OD&D clerics and anti-clerics. <br /><br />Mundane: Suppose your village/tribe has discovered a new non-hostile group living over the next hill. If you are inclined to offer to ally and trade with them, you are lawful. If your inclination is to raid or conquer them, you are chaotic. If you might do either depending on circumstances, you are neutral. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-61563636493355683512016-07-11T22:21:12.388-04:002016-07-11T22:21:12.388-04:00Great write-up. By turns insightful and inspiring....Great write-up. By turns insightful and inspiring. A few comments:<br /><br />1. The teleporting situation seemed a bit out of hand. You have made the spell much more useful since eliminating the original D&D spell's high chance of causing player death (!), but I am curious why you have used such large distance ranges for errors in teleporting. (I assume you have a reason, since you're Delta, but I would still like to hear it.:)) Did your players comment on this?<br /><br />2. As you mentioned via email, the modified extension spell becomes very useful indeed and changes the texture of play, but seemingly in a very good way. Did your players comment on that?<br /><br />3. Regarding alignment: following Geoffrey McKinney and others, in my campaign I define alignment in terms of allegiance to different groups of gods and spirits. So lawful characters worship God and the angels (or other similar celestial beings), neutral characters worship the gods of the elements and faeries, and chaotic characters worship demons and Cthulhu-like outer gods or great old ones (in Greyhawk, this would presumably include Tharizdun and the Elder Elemental God). The nice thing about religious allegiance is that it provides a meaningful identity marker that should (as in the real world) affect alliances and rivalries, but doesn't necessarily determine personal morality (dark deeds can still be committed in the cause of law. . .). Jon Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15483110614579754014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-20580097651547351632016-07-11T13:08:38.719-04:002016-07-11T13:08:38.719-04:00Oh, that makes sense that some folks might not con...Oh, that makes sense that some folks might not connect with Cthulu. I recommend taking them on a trip to the Lost City... ;) :D<br /><br />In all seriousness, when I'm explaining alignment in my campaign, I use the deities or concepts in my campaign of "Might makes Right" as Chaos touchpoints or "Law makes it right" and Lawful deities. But I come back to the rough concepts of Asgard vs. the Dark Deeps of Space Where the Elder Gods Writhe...<br /><br />I have a ton of D20s and I might start doing exactly that type of roll, thank you for the tip!Michael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-23063489980326804172016-07-11T13:01:48.213-04:002016-07-11T13:01:48.213-04:00The mass-dice attacks are certainly best when seve...The mass-dice attacks are certainly best when several monsters are attacking one target. But I also engage it if the PCs all get caught by a barrage of missile fire: my d20's are color-coded to each PC around the table (ROYGBV, etc.) so I might toss them all and then do the math on any obvious high rolls (in teens). Or: Have one eye on my list of PC AC's and go around the table rolling 3 attacks at a time on each. Again, that's mainly for a mob missile attack, and it usually only lasts 1 or 2 rounds, as my players are smart enough to respond quickly to the kind of situation. <br /><br />The alignment discussion is good: In fact, that's almost EXACTLY what my actual response was this weekend! (Lawful fight Cthulhu, Neutral run from Cthulhu, Chaotic assist Cthulhu.) But actually that got a slightly negative response from the player who asked it... I think that bringing in the names of these deities who weren't formerly part of the action/milieu might be confusing or possibly open a distracting side-conversation (are they known in this world?). So now I'm iterating for a response that's more digestible in any scenario. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-88966356674136044142016-07-11T08:42:00.660-04:002016-07-11T08:42:00.660-04:00Fascinating writeup, this sounds like so much fun ...Fascinating writeup, this sounds like so much fun to play.<br /><br />I like the way you do the monster dice rolls, is this assuming one target, multiple attackers, or do you somehow do it for multiple attackers, multiple targets?<br /><br />I use Jeff Rient's old alignment test to explain it - http://jrients.blogspot.com/2008/07/jeffs-threefold-apocalyptic-alignment.htmlMichael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.com