tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post413973890986662691..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: The Marshal: Utility for Units of MenDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-72505588448393211822016-04-24T11:13:48.307-04:002016-04-24T11:13:48.307-04:00I think that's a good observation.I think that's a good observation. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-8756696133446869812016-04-24T08:14:29.685-04:002016-04-24T08:14:29.685-04:00Ah, cool. Thanks for explaining. My math may be ...Ah, cool. Thanks for explaining. My math may be wrong but I think .05 to .075 means an additional 2.5 swords per 100 characters. Maybe that's a reasonably workable figure to adjust results manually if I was so inclined? DHBoggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02170439175265397893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-36803058027209759072016-04-23T15:46:03.544-04:002016-04-23T15:46:03.544-04:00Ha, good point! But I agree, brevity of the listin...Ha, good point! But I agree, brevity of the listing was, as usual, one of my main concerns. I'd rather have people adding intelligent swords where desired than having to go in and routinely delete a big block of text they don't want (as I've had to with other people's generators). I think it's at least minimally playable as-is, whereas when I run into a giant stat block these days (as for swords with lots of exotic abilities), my ability to parse it comes to a screeching halt. Same for spell-casters in that regard. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-35679177496415642402016-04-23T15:40:18.614-04:002016-04-23T15:40:18.614-04:00Magic is taken into account; it's just that co...Magic is taken into account; it's just that coincidentally in this run no one had a magic weapon. Case study of armor would be the first fighter above (Walther): Plate +1, Shield +2, with a Dex -1 mod: Base AC 2 - 1 - 2 + 1 = 0. For contrast, here's a bandit leader from another random run of the program:<br /><br />Helge, Human Ftr8 (AC 0, MV 6, HD 8, hp 40, Atk Morning star +11 (1d8+3); Str 13, Int 11, Wis 14, Dex 15, Con 13, Cha 10; Plate +1, Shield, Morning star +2, Hand axe)<br /><br />Notice that he has a magic morning star +2. Attack bonus is computed as +8 (level) + 1 (Strength) + 2 (magic) = +11. Also damage roll of 1d8+3 includes the strength & magic modifiers. (Perhaps I should have scanned more closely to make sure that all of the interesting bits showed up in the initial example.)<br /><br />In theory, we could certainly change the code for generating magic items to whatever we want. I think the effect of that specific suggestion would be kind of small. (It would change an expected weapon boost of +0.050/level to +0.075/level.) Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-88630218570014718152016-04-23T15:30:12.866-04:002016-04-23T15:30:12.866-04:00Huh, weird. (You might have to re-send your email,...Huh, weird. (You might have to re-send your email, because I'm not seeing it at this time?)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-60689633899991983362016-04-21T14:31:12.372-04:002016-04-21T14:31:12.372-04:00One significant difference in the equipment model ...One significant difference in the equipment model is that RAW, the <i>bulk</i> of the magical items from encounters with men in 0e are from the leaders' equipment. Some low-quality random sampling on my tools page gives about a 50/50 shot of at least one intelligent blade with a significant array of powers per bandit group.<br /><br />One consequence I hadn't considered before is that a substantial number of bandit groups (maybe 25%?) have a leader that is more-or-less controlled by their sword.<br /><br />Not to say I disagree with your model; those swords can get out of hand very quickly and the game is probably better with a few less of them.Joshua L. Lylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358762663581842879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-53471400004403266542016-04-21T12:22:24.727-04:002016-04-21T12:22:24.727-04:00Magic Items:
Ah! I was confused by that +9 bit. ...Magic Items:<br />Ah! I was confused by that +9 bit. Got it. So, if I'm understanding correctly magical equipment bonuses are not considered in the combat calculation? Dan, intuitively I suspect that leaving out magical bonuses may be skewing your results in comparison to the design expectations of D&D. The magic items tables - weapons and armor in particular were literally a hard wired aspect of fighter progression. In OD&D, arms and armor make up a minimum of fully 1/3 of all magic items in treasure (Vol 2, p23), and some treasure types guarantee magical arms and armor will be present if there is anything at all. <br /><br />I know you have observed that certain ability score bonuses - especially constitution - have had a significant impact on survival probability. It seems quite likely to me that randomly getting a magical sword or bit of armor will have a similarly important effect on character survivability and character level distribution.<br /><br />Now for something completely different.. So the program makes a 5% check at each level, once for each piece of equipment. Okay, what I wonder is; could it be adjusted (without too much trouble) to check the 5% three times per level but giving simply an yes or no result not tied to the specific equipment type. IOW, instead of a 5% per level check for "shield" have a 5% three times per level for "is there an item" Each positive "yes" result then being checked by a subtable to see if it's a sword (50%), sheild (25%) or armor (25%)? This is how I do it when I roll up NPC's manually. (5% x level, three times - roll to find equipment type on any positives).<br /><br />I think if the program did that it would go a long way to "fixing" the "uncharacteristically low" count of magic swords. :) <br />DHBoggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02170439175265397893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-11855096835020115142016-04-21T11:32:02.771-04:002016-04-21T11:32:02.771-04:00Meanwhile, I got a bit further. In principle I can...Meanwhile, I got a bit further. In principle I can compile the files, but I run into some undefined things.<br /><br />Please, check your email at superdan.net account.<br /><br />Thanks for thinking along. pileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008654668836414680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-11120891089263904692016-04-21T09:28:43.635-04:002016-04-21T09:28:43.635-04:00Unfortunately, I don't (normally I use the fre...Unfortunately, I don't (normally I use the free jGRASP IDE, and did include a .GPJ project file with the code). I think makefiles are a bit uncommon with Java? Basically you can "javac *.java" all of the .java code files, and then the run-time environment knows how to stitch them all together. Thus you could run sans jar file with the simpler command "java Marshal bandits". <br /><br />jGRASP is available for Linux/UNIX, but I don't think it's necessary that you use that (http://www.jgrasp.org/).Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-27504166922082443082016-04-21T04:27:01.608-04:002016-04-21T04:27:01.608-04:00Do you have a Makefile? That would probably put me...Do you have a Makefile? That would probably put me on track how to compile the thing properly ...pileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008654668836414680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-44803923770225518412016-04-21T04:20:55.211-04:002016-04-21T04:20:55.211-04:00I will try, but possibly I need some help. In that...I will try, but possibly I need some help. In that case I will drop you an email.pileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008654668836414680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-91810107939049270282016-04-21T01:25:31.576-04:002016-04-21T01:25:31.576-04:00Yeah, I get that's how you're treating it....Yeah, I get that's how you're treating it. What I was really getting at is having an alternative advancement for 'common' NPCs to allow for differing troop qualities while avoiding having millions of members of the fighter class extant in the game world.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14285793254382192231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-13489733755103851302016-04-20T23:56:17.529-04:002016-04-20T23:56:17.529-04:00Hmmm, well that's interesting feedback. The pr...Hmmm, well that's interesting feedback. The problem is, there's one point where I did a bit of fancy coding ju-jitsu, using a functional interface (lamba expression), which is only supported in Java 1.8 and later. Although now that I say that, it's actually in the MonsterMetrics module, not included in the Marshal code -- but I had to delete the 1.7 package from my system because it was giving me problems. Any chance you can take the Marshal code and compile it yourself? (biting lip)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-76782922644666440092016-04-20T23:41:39.523-04:002016-04-20T23:41:39.523-04:00Thanks for the thoughtful words! I'll keep in ...Thanks for the thoughtful words! I'll keep in mind the possibility of a switch for Vol-1 hit dice, and castle garrisons (good ideas). That might be more work than first expected, because the system currently expects a Sup-I type hit die model (flat one-die with no bonus per level up to name), and the stronghold garrisons don't use the same leadership specifications. <br /><br />Names I just grabbed from a list of German names, which work well for my purposes. It's possible to just modify the Names.csv data file if you wished (possibly pre-populated with some other program's name generator output). <br /><br />On magic items: I'm looking at Vol-2 p. 5, under Men, where it says "5% chance for Fighting-Men for each level, roll for... Armor Shield Sword". So I'm making a 5% check at each level bump to add a bump to each piece of equipment (3 separate checks per level). <br /><br />And I might have confused you with the OED-style attack output. When it says, e.g., "Sword +9" that's a total attack bonus, i.e., I'd roll d20+9+AC >= 20 to check for a hit (in this case, inclusive of fighter level 8 and +1 Strength modifier). If the weapon is magical that only shows up in the equipment listing at the end. You may notice that NONE of the fighters in this example have ANY magic weapons, so feel free to critique that as uncharacteristically low, perhaps. :-) Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-89459225740412693272016-04-20T23:31:24.900-04:002016-04-20T23:31:24.900-04:00Awesome, good idea!Awesome, good idea!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-38498137944759373542016-04-20T23:26:47.917-04:002016-04-20T23:26:47.917-04:00Ha!Ha!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-47283338252431889732016-04-20T23:26:28.032-04:002016-04-20T23:26:28.032-04:00I agree with your first instinct that the 3E NPC c...I agree with your first instinct that the 3E NPC classes were a misfire. It's so much complication for so little benefit. I'd rather have the issue wrapped into a more succinct system.<br /><br />In Original D&D, you had normal men with 1d6 hit points, and 1st-level fighters at 1d6+1. So all those "+1" cases (dervishes, et. al.) are essentially just the residue of intending them as simply 1st level fighters. <br /><br />I treat it that way in the simulator code. Everyone starts out at 0-level with 1d6 hit points, and on getting 1st level get the +1 hp bump. While on average that's the same as a 1d8 hit die, if you squint real hard, you may realize that in my model it's impossible for a 1st-level fighter to actually have 8 hp (or 1), prior to Con adjustment. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-41359386732155695092016-04-20T21:30:41.024-04:002016-04-20T21:30:41.024-04:00I did get Bandits working (except for treasure) an...I did get Bandits working (except for treasure) and added them to the "Experimental" section.Joshua L. Lylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358762663581842879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-5630206501789796702016-04-20T15:59:46.134-04:002016-04-20T15:59:46.134-04:00Very nice, and thank-you for the link!
I've b...Very nice, and thank-you for the link!<br /><br />I've been toying around with a more table-driven version for my tools page; I'd been trying to get at least orcs working (since they have such interestingly idiosyncratic leaders) in addition, which is where I got bogged down. I really must get back to that.Joshua L. Lylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358762663581842879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-71701892188570277942016-04-20T08:39:09.874-04:002016-04-20T08:39:09.874-04:00Awesome Dan! Now, a couple thoughts and questions...Awesome Dan! Now, a couple thoughts and questions.<br /><br />Hit Dice - you used d8 for fighters, but I use the straight d6 of the 3lbb's in my games. Is there any way to adjust for that?<br /><br />Magic Items: I'm not certain, but when a magic item appears I think you are giving a 1/3 chance to each category (sword, shield, armor)? U&WA p19 guidelines for NPC fighters gives the frequency of magic items possessed by fighters as swords 50%, shields 25%, armor 25%. Any chance of adjusting the program to reflect these percentages? <br /><br />Sword Bonuses - In your example, these are uncharacteristically high for OD&D. Instead of adding the bonus each time the sword comes up, perhaps you could have a 1-4 bonus range, always discarding a lower bonus already in the fighters' possession. The value of the previous discarded sword (1000 per bonus) could be added to the fighters XP score.<br /><br />Names - I don't know how you generate the names, but perhaps for more OD&D flavor you could use a syllable generator like the Holmes one or the Magira one I did based on the Zenopus method? Here's the link for that: http://boggswood.blogspot.com/2013/09/random-names-magira-style.html<br /><br />Bandits and nomads: The entries for these in Men & Monsters is based on the write ups Dave Arneson did that you can find in the FFC. Instead of 1 hero per 30 men, etc. the leader types there are specified as a 10% chance per 10 men of 1 hero, and a 10% chance per 100 men of 1 superhero. I don't know if that is of any use to you but I thought you might find it interesting.<br /><br />Lastly, I just wrote a 'blogpost about garrisons as described in Supplement II. Is there any chance you could add an option to the program to generate those? I think it is a bit less involved than generating bandits. The link for that is here: http://boggswood.blogspot.com/2016/04/sergeants-officers-and-temple-of-frog.html<br />DHBoggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02170439175265397893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-79667666959720001282016-04-20T05:41:17.604-04:002016-04-20T05:41:17.604-04:00This looks totally awesome. So much in fact that I...This looks totally awesome. So much in fact that I decided to download the package to play with it, but unfortunately I get an error message.<br /><br />I have hardly any experience with java (I am more a python person myself), but google told me that the error is due to a version conflict. <br /><br />My version is 1.7.0_95 and I presume you have version 1.8? Now, I can manually install 1.8 but Debian recommends to stick to 1.7. So, I am a bit hesitant to upgrade. Would it be possible for you to create a package with version 1.7?pileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008654668836414680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-32625489397155743522016-04-19T23:48:10.170-04:002016-04-19T23:48:10.170-04:00Amazing. Just... watch out that you don't end ...Amazing. Just... watch out that you don't end up recreating Dwarf Fortress. :pConfanityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361443460498670841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-37401246742838921002016-04-19T15:00:37.126-04:002016-04-19T15:00:37.126-04:00I've actually been mulling over an idea what w...I've actually been mulling over an idea what with the slaughter or millions of 0-level men in your simulators lately. As background, I was never fond of the NPC classes in 3rd Edition. It always struck me as weird that this one 3rd-level melee guy is slightly better than these others because he has the fighter PC class, whereas they belong to the warrior NPC class. I also disliked how a world-renowned pastry chef had as many hit points as a powerful archmage.<br /><br />Despite my misgivings about their implementation, though, I've begun to think that maybe they were onto something with their PC exceptionalism, as well as with the ability for NPCs to gain some kind of mechanical advancement. Maybe the "0-level men" SHOULD be a different class from what the player characters can be, with its own progression and benefits. So perhaps out of a unit of 100 soldiers, only one has the adventurous spirit and heroic will to advance as a fighter, and the rest should advance along a different track.<br /><br />As mentioned, though, IMO the guys writing 3rd really overdid it. What I'm suggesting is something like this:<br /><br />* Every non-adventurer starts as a Level 1 NPC. This comes with 1d6 hit points and proficiency with the dagger and club.<br />* There is no 2nd level of NPC; each individual has two pools of experience, which they fill by doing relevant activities and tasks - a civilian pool and a warrior pool<br />* Gaining a level of civilian grants skill/proficiency ranks/slots/points or whatever you use, but no combat-related bonuses; this also includes knowledge of how to use the tools of a trade, if applicable<br />* Gaining a level of warrior improves your to-hit chance as if you were a fighter (in those editions where it varies by class) and one hit point (NOT one hit die); also grants proficiency with one weapon and/or one armor type that the NPC has been training with<br /><br />This way a grizzled veteran mercenary who's fought in a dozen battles gets a leg up on the fresh peasant levy - even if both of them are equipped with the same pike and short sword - but without letting him step on the toes of low- to mid-level PC fighters.<br /><br />Plus, there's already some precedent for giving "better" NPC soldiers an extra 1 hit point - dervishes, berserkers, dwarfs, elves, and hobgoblins, for example.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14285793254382192231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-56661902218212957622016-04-19T08:08:47.097-04:002016-04-19T08:08:47.097-04:00Ha, exactly!Ha, exactly!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-3248213119782605042016-04-19T08:08:30.553-04:002016-04-19T08:08:30.553-04:00Awesome!Awesome!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.com