tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post3274047672574129390..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Guest Post: Medieval MagicDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-85572192697497055232017-05-31T00:50:42.389-04:002017-05-31T00:50:42.389-04:00Nice reference!Nice reference!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-20789822764633390352017-05-31T00:50:08.845-04:002017-05-31T00:50:08.845-04:00Oh wow, that's nice. Good show!Oh wow, that's nice. Good show!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-61010380234404534022017-05-31T00:49:30.533-04:002017-05-31T00:49:30.533-04:00Good observation!Good observation!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-26073801153169563972017-05-31T00:48:42.668-04:002017-05-31T00:48:42.668-04:00Yeah, that's the case in OD&D as well. It ...Yeah, that's the case in OD&D as well. It makes sense to as a "tree of life" kind of thing... the further up you go the more options and variety become possible. To my now OD&D-sensitized eye, the AD&D model where more lower stuff got made seems forced. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-70569322157966923852017-05-31T00:47:11.600-04:002017-05-31T00:47:11.600-04:00I agree that PC1 is a pretty good supplement, than...I agree that PC1 is a pretty good supplement, thanks for reminding us of that. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-38651811121878722492017-05-25T21:04:16.827-04:002017-05-25T21:04:16.827-04:00I only included a couple from the Magic in History...I only included a couple from the Magic in History series, but all of them from that series are good.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-21389993533419277502017-05-25T19:15:25.204-04:002017-05-25T19:15:25.204-04:00Thanks! Agreed. The post and the comments are all ...Thanks! Agreed. The post and the comments are all great. Fight on!Tetramorphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07253316716885460459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-63295125416536663382017-05-25T08:19:52.946-04:002017-05-25T08:19:52.946-04:00Thank you! I have some of these, but the additions...Thank you! I have some of these, but the additions are most welcome!LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-81384572470496318912017-05-25T08:18:42.739-04:002017-05-25T08:18:42.739-04:00Definitely going on my list! Thank you!Definitely going on my list! Thank you!LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-81208795685827978212017-05-25T05:53:54.398-04:002017-05-25T05:53:54.398-04:00Another excellent RPG that has magic based on real...Another excellent RPG that has magic based on real-world sources is Celtic Legends, written by Stéphane Daudier and published in 1992 by Descartes Editeur (originally in French, although I have an English copy kicking around somewhere). Every spell included a quote from a primary source such as the Mabinogion that described the effect of the spell. One I remember particularly was "Creating a Woman Out of Flowers." Good stuff.Retromancerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03001000119685884211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-76805307546404132792017-05-24T21:14:57.496-04:002017-05-24T21:14:57.496-04:00Cool post! Magical systems from the real world are...Cool post! Magical systems from the real world are something I try to avoid adding into my campaigns (just as I don't add in any real-world religions), but for those who wish to do so this is an excellent place to start.<br /><br />An additional possibility is that certain of the spells excised from the normal spell lists (such as Teleport) might only function while on the Astral plane or other non-physical realms of existence; from what I've read about how other referees conduct their otherworldly adventures, there could certainly be plenty of extra ethereal hazards to offset the advantages offered by instant travel and on-demand shelter.Fuzzy Skinnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10606454596061907461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-73950216306217479782017-05-24T16:10:12.030-04:002017-05-24T16:10:12.030-04:00I almost forgot one of the most important ones, wh...I almost forgot one of the most important ones, which was critical in changing the way I looked at what was called "magic" in history and antiquity:<br /><br />Couliano, Ioan - <i>Eros and Magic in the Renaissance</i>faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-80414970794569045592017-05-24T16:01:25.277-04:002017-05-24T16:01:25.277-04:00OK, here goes. This is not complete, mind, but onl...OK, here goes. This is not complete, mind, but only covers what I think of right now:<br /><br />Betz, Hans Dieter - <i>The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation: Including the Demotic Spells</i><br />Butler, Elizabeth - <i>Ritual Magic</i><br />D'Este, Sorita and David Rankine, eds. - <i>The Faerie Queens</i><br />Davies, Owen - <i>Grimoires: A History of Magic Books</i><br />Fanger, Claire - <i>Conjuring Spirits</i><br />Flowers, Stephen - <i>The Galdrabók</i><br />Flowers, Stephen - <i>Hermetic Magic: The Postmodern Papyrus of Abaris</i><br />Flowers, Stephen - <i>Icelandic Magic: Practical Secrets of the Northern Grimoires</i><br />Gårdbäck, Johannes Björn - <i>Trolldom</i><br />Greer, John Michael and Christopher Warnock - <i>The Picatrix: Liber Atratus Edition</i><br />Harms, Daniel - <i>The Long-Lost Friend: A 19th Century American Grimoire</i><br />Harms, Daniel, et al. - <i>The Book of Oberon</i><br />Huson, Paul - <i>Mastering Witchcraft</i><br />Kieckhefer, Richard - <i>Forbidden Rites</i><br />Lecouteux, Claude - <i>The Book of Grimoires</i><br />Randolph, Vance - <i>Ozark Magic and Folklore</i><br />Rankine, David - <i>The Book of Treasure Spirits</i><br />Rankine, David - <i>The Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet</i><br />Salaman, Clement, et al. - <i>The Way of Hermes: New Translations of the Corpus Hermeticum</i><br />Skinner, Stephen - <i>Techniques of Graeco-Egyptian Magic</i><br />Skinner, Stephen - <i>Techniques of Solomonic Magic</i><br />Skinner, Stephen and Ioannis Marathakis - <i>The Magical Treatise of Solomon, or Hygromanteia</i><br />(Dr. Skinner has also edited the rest of the Sourceworks of Ceremonial Magic series)<br />Smith, Christopher Alan - <i>Icelandic Magic: Aims, Tools, and Techniques of the Icelandic Sorcerers</i><br />Stratton-Kent, Jake - <i>Geosophia</i> (2 vols)<br />Stratton-Kent, Jake - <i>The Testament of Cyprian the Mage</i> (2 vols)<br />Stratton-Kent, Jake - <i>True Grimoire</i><br />Tyson, Donald, ed. - <i>Three Books of Occult Philosophy</i> and <i>Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy</i><br /><br />Also, most of these authors have other books that may be of interest. I should note that Paul Huson is writing mostly in a modern context, so you may want to skip him.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-43127126863900183932017-05-24T04:13:52.904-04:002017-05-24T04:13:52.904-04:00That would be great, thank you!That would be great, thank you!LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-78423499203570457282017-05-24T03:31:38.732-04:002017-05-24T03:31:38.732-04:00Good point!Good point!Retromancerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03001000119685884211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-41802298365460576402017-05-23T22:59:23.335-04:002017-05-23T22:59:23.335-04:00If you're interested in sources, I could provi...If you're interested in sources, I could provide a useful bibliography, from translations of grimoires to modern commentary. There's something of a cottage industry on the subject that has grown up in the last decade or two.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-73491545480599505012017-05-23T18:54:54.067-04:002017-05-23T18:54:54.067-04:00Ooo! Thank you for the source! I'll put it to ...Ooo! Thank you for the source! I'll put it to use not only in my AD&D game, but in my Ars Magica game!LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-84315775087790142002017-05-23T18:54:18.041-04:002017-05-23T18:54:18.041-04:00Spot on. I tilted more toward "medieval"...Spot on. I tilted more toward "medieval" than "fantastical," which took me in a different direction, but as another commenter says below, you can do so much to establish the 'feel' of your game-world by customizing the spell lists.LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-8433754989760067942017-05-23T18:52:57.105-04:002017-05-23T18:52:57.105-04:00I was concerned about this, but I was mainly focus...I was concerned about this, but I was mainly focused on sticking with my theme, so if it turned out that there were fewer 1st level spells that worked in-theme than 2nd... well, I just ran with it. My fan-wank justification is that magic is hard, and that there are very few "elementary" spells, while things really open up when you start getting a little more advanced.LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-41686814292354870242017-05-23T10:15:00.021-04:002017-05-23T10:15:00.021-04:00Great work, Mr. Schurtz!
My own favorite source w...Great work, Mr. Schurtz!<br /><br />My own favorite source when reflecting on historical impressions of the fantastic is Odin's list of 18 charms from the Hávamál:<br />http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/havamal.html#spells<br /><br />Healing, spell-turning and fouling other magicians, seduction, protection from arrows and blades, putting out fires, soothing the seas, speaking with the dead, knowledge of monsters, breaking fetters. I tend to look over spell lists to see if those are things magic users can accomplish in a game, and whether they would want to, given other options they might have.Joshua L. Lylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358762663581842879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-89957574776752875322017-05-23T02:56:07.741-04:002017-05-23T02:56:07.741-04:00This is a terrific list. I think that one of the w...This is a terrific list. I think that one of the ways that D&D can be adapted to specific settings is to alter the spell lists in this way.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-82525248228519877882017-05-22T18:24:02.149-04:002017-05-22T18:24:02.149-04:00I love this post! Thanks. One place I would differ...I love this post! Thanks. One place I would differ, however, is though some things I've learned over at ODD74, especially from Gronan. I kept thinking that "fantastical medieval," had an emphasis on the medieval. But really the emphasis was on the fantastical and especially on the 30s-70s pulp fiction sci-fi and fantasy. They weren't trying to game the actual middle ages. They were trying to game pulp fantasy middle ages. When you look at it that way, the spell lists are pretty near perfect. And, when you look at it that way, it means there is a different set of books to study in order to "get the spells right." These are pulp fiction books and movies, not awesome, actual, ancient medieval texts. But if that is what you want to do for your campaign, then that is the right thing to do! Fight on!Tetramorphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07253316716885460459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-9774173002310884512017-05-22T16:28:21.556-04:002017-05-22T16:28:21.556-04:00Why the first level has fewer spells than the seco...Why the first level has fewer spells than the second level?<br /><br />I saw this before in some editions but never understood why this happen.G. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-41887040047470154262017-05-22T09:06:00.107-04:002017-05-22T09:06:00.107-04:00Honored to be the first guest poster! I can totall...Honored to be the first guest poster! I can totally see the classification of things like Charm Person and Sleep as black magic - I think that's a matter of individual campaign flavor. Obviously, my conception of black magic had to do with 'tampering with dark powers' rather than any particular effects, but a different concept could work for a different campaign world.LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-47579252436134403322017-05-22T06:23:00.493-04:002017-05-22T06:23:00.493-04:00This is great stuff! I have been working along ver...This is great stuff! I have been working along very similar lines for my own perhaps-never-to-be-finished, eclectic version of Old School rules. An additional work I found very helpful is “Magicians and the Colours of Magic” on the Akratic Wizardry blog: http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/2009/07/magicians-and-colours-of-magic.html<br />And for elven/fae magic, I am thinking of incorporating some of the “Fairy-Charms” available to fae PC races in Basic D&D book PC1 – Creature Crucible: Tall Tales of the Wee Folk (1980) by John Nephew.<br />One area where I differ from Prof. Schurtz and Akrasia is the categorization of spells that rob the subject’s free will and agency, such as Charm Person and perhaps even Sleep. I feel these should be Black Magic, since they are generally used to rob the target of life, liberty, and/or the pursuit of happiness. I would be open to hearing other opinions, though. <br />Thanks for making your first guest post such a great one!<br /><br />Retromancerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03001000119685884211noreply@blogger.com