tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post3259826865733556174..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Harpies Through the AgesDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-62882316860220044692017-12-30T22:26:02.553-05:002017-12-30T22:26:02.553-05:00I agree I find it quizzical. But for some reason E...I agree I find it quizzical. But for some reason EGG was really committed to it (see above).Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-35633607847306339072017-12-30T22:25:16.381-05:002017-12-30T22:25:16.381-05:00That's a really good example! Pounds home the ...That's a really good example! Pounds home the Gygaxian commitment to the song/touch distinction. I wonder, was there some prior myth or tradition he was getting that from?Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-59687999105072969532017-12-30T22:23:52.901-05:002017-12-30T22:23:52.901-05:00Good question about the mass effect (with no range...Good question about the mass effect (with no range given until 3E). The weren't in any edition of Battlesystem that I can see.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-1798533965092855452017-12-30T22:20:21.942-05:002017-12-30T22:20:21.942-05:00Oh, that's nice that you split out those monst...Oh, that's nice that you split out those monster types. I agree if you were accustomed to Moldvay's simplicity it would be a hard sell to go in the other direction.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-78634092327209762172017-12-23T13:06:37.399-05:002017-12-23T13:06:37.399-05:00If you are lured, but not charmed, can you attack ...If you are lured, but not charmed, can you attack the Harpy when you see it? If it attacks you and misses, such that you are not charmed, can you run away? If the Harpy does not touch you after it lures you can you run away? I’m not sure what the purpose/distinction is between the charm and the lure. If the lure is absolute, why do you need the charm. The only thing I can think is damage breaks you out of the lure, but at that point your charmed. Seems to be a point less distinction, unless you can attack them on sight.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08864993221502918896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-80119118756769182582017-12-22T02:30:16.121-05:002017-12-22T02:30:16.121-05:00For completeness' sake, I would mention the Si...For completeness' sake, I would mention the Sirine from the AD&D Monster Manual II (p.109). Although not hideous, nor part avian, they do have analogous powers:<br />"Sirines have the following magical powers: _song_, which will _charm person_ at 3" range all subject creatures of hostile nature within hearing suggestion [sic]; _polymorph self_; _fog cloud_; and _improved invisibility_. Each is usable once per day, 1 at a time, at will. Additionally, any intelligent creature touched in melee by a sirine must save vs. poison or become an idiot (intelligence=2). The idiocy so caused can be removed at will but requires a touch from the sirine. Otherwise, _dispel magic_ may be used to bring back intelligence."<br />Also of interest: "Alignment of a group of sirines will always be the same with respect to good, evil, and absolute neutral alignment. In a group of evil sirines, for example, there can be lawful, neutral, and chaotic members." Retromancerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03001000119685884211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-20118867075163217222017-12-19T10:25:33.868-05:002017-12-19T10:25:33.868-05:00My first thoughts are that there should be a sort ...My first thoughts are that there should be a sort of damage track for enchanting song (and related effects, like lotus-eating or sex pollen), that goes from fascination to attraction to charm to helplessness. <br /><br />Then this power is scoped based on 1) the individual power of the creatures creating it and 2) the number cooperating to create it. So, a single vampire might be able to move a single target several steps at once, or a swarm/mod one step. A single nixie might not have any power, while a swarm of them could affect one target at a time. And sirens could affect single targets or a group could coordinate to affect a group.<br /><br />My second thoughts are that this is potentially interesting, but almost certainly too much overhead at the table.Joshua L. Lylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358762663581842879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-57323147445968379672017-12-19T08:49:27.844-05:002017-12-19T08:49:27.844-05:00Hmmm, I think I would have the victims make a sing...Hmmm, I think I would have the victims make a single save first to see if they are lured by the song(s). If they fail, then I would make some roll (d20 + HD or Cha?) on behalf of each of the two competing harpies to see which "wins". <br />I could even see some fun if the victims are more than a single rounds movement from each Harpy as they get into a singing duel to see who gets the prey.Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-72793197340605024392017-12-19T05:45:03.873-05:002017-12-19T05:45:03.873-05:00It's an interesting question. What if there ar...It's an interesting question. What if there are two competing harpies, one to the right and one to the left of a person? Not that this would be a common occurrence, but it doesn't seem impossible either.<br /><br />I think that I'd say that all harpies singing together count as a single "attack" lure, requiring a single save. The Charm effect would be just like any other Charm.<br /><br />I'm also imagining what this would look like on a Battlesystem 1E tabletop. For that purpose, maybe a 30" (AD&D inches) range, plus 2" for every full doubling of the number of harpies, since more harpies sing louder?faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-17335454639603390922017-12-19T02:17:36.369-05:002017-12-19T02:17:36.369-05:00Huh. Having started with B/X, I've always used...Huh. Having started with B/X, I've always used the harpy as laid out by Moldvay (as far as I can remember). After reviewing the other possible options you've pointed out, I'd STILL go with Moldvay...it's seems the simplest, most sensible way to deal with the creature's power.<br /><br />Of course, the last time I used harpies in a B/X game, they were "zombified" and had no songs (or charm effect) at all, having been surgically modified.<br /><br />When I was writing my Five Ancient Kingdoms, I removed the siren muddling from my version of the harpy. Here's my entry for the creature:<br /><br />"Harpy: a demonic vulture, with humanoid features. Foes must save versus magic or stand paralyzed in fear while the harpy is present. They are both intelligent and cruel."<br />JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-54836819485515701462017-12-18T23:32:03.755-05:002017-12-18T23:32:03.755-05:00That's an interesting interpretation I hadn...That's an interesting interpretation I hadn't considered!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-6982788097048935472017-12-18T09:33:27.900-05:002017-12-18T09:33:27.900-05:00My thought would be that a Harpy Song is a singula...My thought would be that a Harpy Song is a singular song, whether sung by an individual or a chorus of Harpies. So one save per song/group/encounter.<br />With that in mind I like the idea that an individual Harpy can choose to charm/enslave a target for a time as a plaything before devouring them. (it also allows for player's to have a fighting chance/rescue) So I like the idea of keeping a separate Charm ability (touch/gaze). <br />I can see a fun encounter where one or some Harpies in a flock want a new plaything, but others want to devour their catch right away, allows PC's to escape or fight back when the infighting starts.<br />So: singular luring song/save that can affect folks from far away; a close up charm with its own individual save.Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-76999744567791755452017-12-18T08:23:08.722-05:002017-12-18T08:23:08.722-05:00I use the AD&D separate save rules.
I interpr...I use the AD&D separate save rules.<br /><br />I interpret the song as an individual attack by one harpy on a victim. That the creature will sing in general, but only one person (roll randomly for target unless circumstances make it applicable to one only) will be the focus and require a save. This does mean that for a flock of harpies, there will possibly be multiple targets... or the harpies focusing on one that they will fight over!Michael S/Chgowizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052820400496340137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-8939052403512629682017-12-18T07:03:57.875-05:002017-12-18T07:03:57.875-05:00I think the Charm touch is meant to cause the vict...I think the Charm touch is meant to cause the victim to be a subject of the harpy as if affected by a Charm spell (Charm Person, Monster, etc). I say this because in OD&D the "Charm" word is emphasised, so her special ability is one ability that has two steps: first sing to lure the victim then touch to complete the charming. With this in mind, I would give one save only when the victim hear the song but no save when touched.<br /><br />My house roles would be... One save for the whole flock but the victim can only be charmed by one harpy. Maybe the save is one point harder for each extra harpy singing.G. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.com