tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post3067708420769038975..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: HelgaCon VI – Descent Into the DepthsDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-33779877294000421912013-06-19T11:23:34.529-04:002013-06-19T11:23:34.529-04:00Yeah, I think that interpretation is more fairly c...Yeah, I think that interpretation is more fairly compatible with what's in the module. And I agree, I'd love to have it documented if this was always played as straight-up assault or something else. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-33637218621712310142013-06-18T16:50:47.523-04:002013-06-18T16:50:47.523-04:00I've read that specific encounter now and I ha...I've read that specific encounter now and I have to agree with your assessment. They are likely to fight. The way it's presented, though, it led me to believe they wouldn't fight with full force at the beginning and the two guards are first to inform their (male) leaders what's about to happen. The women on the other side would only react to the threat as they see fit IF a fight occurs (and for one of them, Vlondril the leader, with instructions to withdraw and inform the bosses). It will also have political consequences, something I didn't think about before (I mean, Gygax is specific about the noble being only a "liasion" and the rivalries). So the males, without the liasion, would be the first to get involved in a fight. If that goes south, the females would engage (maybe all but Vlondril and with Akordia using some of her globes). Jeggred and Vlondril would get engaged to tip the scale to the drows advantage and flee otherwise?<br /><br />I can see now how this could be perceived as one of the easier modules in the series. It's totally depending on how intelligent the enemies are played. And I think you did an excellent job to give a good first impression of an intelligent and capable foe to begin with.<br /><br />I'd also really like to know how Gygax played this encounter...Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-31213412083461954212013-06-18T13:19:51.690-04:002013-06-18T13:19:51.690-04:00I can see that as a reasonable take on it. However...I can see that as a reasonable take on it. However, the module is old-school tournament style and looks like it expects a fight and nothing else (all the text is about Drow weapons & stats, no reactions). From the first watchpoint: "Despite rivalry each [male & female groups] will co-operate fully with the other in an intelligent attack and defense pattern", which seems like it's an attack-first posture.<br /><br />Also, all of this section of underearth is really under Drow dominion, so I think there's less rationale for letting them by & fighting other monsters, than gatekeeping intruders out in the first place. I think it's maybe more compatible to invoke what you're saying AFTER the first watchpost, when PCs are in the heartland (so-to-speak), and more competing interests are likely at hand. (Kind of like the difference in reaction between border guards and illegal employers, to use a probably unwise immigration analogy.)<br />Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-80318241243495908732013-06-17T10:30:53.298-04:002013-06-17T10:30:53.298-04:00Don't know the module that well, but I'd g...Don't know the module that well, but I'd go for parleying, if the outpost is discovered (if they're not discovered, they'd let them pass, following them in a distance...). They'd be even nice and chatty (but lying and misleading, of course).<br /><br />If it is reasonable to assume that the Drow know something's coming their way, my guess would be they'd gather more intelligence first. Best way to do that would be to see them fight against another foe (manipulating the group, if possible, maybe using illusions, into the direction they want them, they have the home advantage after all). As soon as enough intelligence is gathered, the Drow would think about how they could use the player characters (selling them as slaves, torturing them for information, using them as puppets, etc.). Only if all that fails to promise any benefit, they'd ambush the group (now knowing exactly where their weaknesses are...) to kill the threat.<br /><br />Even if attacked, they'd still try and dispatch a messenger, to make the above happen. If this fails and the outpost falls silent, an investigation would be the next thing the Drow'd do and proceed from there (as soon, as they catch up with the group).<br /><br />Could be a bit harsh on the players, though...Jens D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18394303166081684904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-18406402004561150662013-05-30T22:49:30.208-04:002013-05-30T22:49:30.208-04:00That's a really good catch, no way I was going...That's a really good catch, no way I was going to find that paragraph way back in the appendix information like that. Very nice to have that definitively cleared up, thank you!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-8029441640380421462013-05-29T11:31:20.661-04:002013-05-29T11:31:20.661-04:00So your instinct was correct. Ta.So your instinct was correct. Ta.Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-71832811029778336512013-05-29T10:53:41.327-04:002013-05-29T10:53:41.327-04:00I think I may have been influenced by the Drow mer...I think I may have been influenced by the Drow merchant slave in 9 and the Drow noble woman kept for torture in 35. I had a sense that these were -attack on sight- enemy races.<br /><br />However, I have been scanning the module again and came across a definitive statement that the Drow certainly use the primary passage through the temple. In the section on the Kuo-Toa:<br /><br />'These religious communities, as well as other Kuo-Toa settlements, are open to the Drow and their servants, for the Dark Elves provide useful goods and services as slave traders and merchants.'<br /><br />So that's that. I like the way Gygax anticipates questions a reader might have.Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-47097097441879529502013-05-29T10:27:51.404-04:002013-05-29T10:27:51.404-04:00I totally agree that Gygax's modules have an i...I totally agree that Gygax's modules have an incomparable richness to them that rewards close study. Well put!<br /><br />I think the comment in area 1 about passerby is telling ("those entering are permitted to approach the shrine... and move on"). Plus, the encounter tables have plenty of Drow patrol & merchants in the primary passage. So I always assumed there was, like, an uneasy truce between Drow & Kuo-Toa here.<br /><br />What part of the temple description were you looking at that seemed conclusive about no Drow allowed?<br />Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-15713909684981629142013-05-28T23:26:26.971-04:002013-05-28T23:26:26.971-04:00Well, as time goes by I appreciate Gygax's mod...Well, as time goes by I appreciate Gygax's modules more and more (and all other modules less and less !!) so I think it is worth thinking about these little problems.<br /><br />Given the Kuo-Toa enmity with the Drow, for me it is impossible that the Drow could pass safely through the passages at the temple. The impression I have is that the Kuo-Tao are not at all dominated by the Drow in this underworld.<br /><br />At the same time I am puzzled that the players map shows the primary route passing through the temple. I discount the spiders nest secondary route simply because it does not explicitly connect with the Drow Vault even on the DM map.<br /><br />The maps suggest that drow pass freely through the temple. The temple description itself suggests that this is not possible. So I admit I am confused, though I have no difficulty resorting to further circuitous passages.<br /><br />Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-24368117913582252002013-05-28T23:04:36.622-04:002013-05-28T23:04:36.622-04:00Well, I always assumed that Drow could just pass t...Well, I always assumed that Drow could just pass through that location based on what's written for area #1 ("traffic is not uncommon... organized only with respect to its guards and hierarchy, not its pilgrims or passerby"). There's also the possibility of the mostly-secondary passage that leads from module D1 to the spider-nest lair in module D3 (bypassing D2). <br /><br />What was your thinking on that?Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-64869780429085788882013-05-28T21:19:14.926-04:002013-05-28T21:19:14.926-04:00By the way, referring to the given map, how do you...By the way, referring to the given map, how do you conceive the Drow pass through the region of the temple D2?Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-76726419228724983422013-05-01T12:47:03.881-04:002013-05-01T12:47:03.881-04:00Thanks !
I greatly enjoy yours too. :)Thanks !<br />I greatly enjoy yours too. :)Nicolas "Ungoliant" Senachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10564991062528970332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-20296757321224417062013-05-01T11:32:41.455-04:002013-05-01T11:32:41.455-04:00Love the blog! (And so does my French girlfriend.)...Love the blog! (And so does my French girlfriend.)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-60236716652118762962013-05-01T05:49:49.703-04:002013-05-01T05:49:49.703-04:00This post of mine may interest you. ;)
http://purp...This post of mine may interest you. ;)<br />http://purpulpworm.blogspot.fr/2013/05/lawful-mind-flayers.htmlNicolas "Ungoliant" Senachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10564991062528970332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-19525890983343359172013-04-27T12:58:13.868-04:002013-04-27T12:58:13.868-04:00Right, I did catch that -- it's an awkward coi...Right, I did catch that -- it's an awkward coincidence that hex is the same as another module in the series.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-80138403062668748722013-04-27T12:09:57.853-04:002013-04-27T12:09:57.853-04:00You're welcome ! ;)
Precision: the D3 I am tal...You're welcome ! ;)<br />Precision: the D3 I am talking about in the end, it's The Vault of the Drow, not the hex D3.Nicolas "Ungoliant" Senachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10564991062528970332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-17929071049113454192013-04-27T11:32:31.195-04:002013-04-27T11:32:31.195-04:00Hmmm, those are quite interesting ideas, too. Than...Hmmm, those are quite interesting ideas, too. Thanks for sharing those!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-69275005737871957302013-04-27T08:12:53.645-04:002013-04-27T08:12:53.645-04:00I think you can easily fix it :
-drow items emit r...I think you can easily fix it :<br />-drow items emit radiation, the module says. So, since we know that 4th level drow can cast "detect magic", the DM can decree that this spell can also detect these radiations. If the party have some drow items (which is almost certainly, due to the mandatory fight of the hex D3), the PCs will be ambushed because it would be a proof of their exactions. If this is not the case, the drow will parley.<br /><br />-regarding to the passes, cf. the Joshua's comment. <br /><br />-regarding to the mind flayers, you - as the DM - can decree that the illithid blood is phosphorescent/radioactive etc. (that's weird and tasty !) and drow have developed magical means to identify these traces of their mortal enemies.<br /><br />As a result, the drow reaction are based solely on the party's past actions and cautions (and this is fun !) instead of being based on a reaction table or on the location (except the hex D3). <br /><br />You can also look over the D3 in order to find more clues about drow reactions. <br /><br />PS : Please excuse my poor phrasing, I'm French. ;)Nicolas "Ungoliant" Senachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10564991062528970332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-42227758430267654332013-04-27T01:00:44.752-04:002013-04-27T01:00:44.752-04:00Yeah, that may be best. I'd also say: make a n...Yeah, that may be best. I'd also say: make a note to re-roll any encounters with Drow merchants prior to that point.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-44815768936386478372013-04-27T00:56:51.278-04:002013-04-27T00:56:51.278-04:00That's interesting. Inasmuch as the Drow are c...That's interesting. Inasmuch as the Drow are chaotic and factional, there is a pretty strong argument to make that the random reaction table is the way to go. But I still don't want the initial encounter (or any major area) to be totally bypassable because the Drow randomly decided to slap you on the back and say "great to see you". Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-37394892412786270482013-04-27T00:54:48.033-04:002013-04-27T00:54:48.033-04:00I agree -- and that bothers me greatly! I agree -- and that bothers me greatly! Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-5971478170617154672013-04-27T00:54:11.150-04:002013-04-27T00:54:11.150-04:00That is pretty darn good. It's in theme with s...That is pretty darn good. It's in theme with some details in a later module, too.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-63457941918289296162013-04-25T17:40:05.165-04:002013-04-25T17:40:05.165-04:00I think if I ever run this, or a facsimile of it, ...I think if I ever run this, or a facsimile of it, I'm going to treat D3 as "auto ambush" and then let it roll from there based on actions of the PCs. It just seems like fun that way - get your feet wet with a nasty ambush, and see if they learn to fool the drow with brooches and negotiation.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-43468702678817083892013-04-25T15:15:34.459-04:002013-04-25T15:15:34.459-04:00In the Petty Gods book, each of the gods has it...In the Petty Gods book, each of the gods has it's own reaction table. I've been thinking that giving each monster (or encounters) their own reaction table would allow you to flesh out the various monsters in a consistent, usable and concise way.Hedgehobbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17606283586332210195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-44561011472681493412013-04-25T15:06:37.258-04:002013-04-25T15:06:37.258-04:00Great report !
The text concerning the mind flaye...Great report ! <br />The text concerning the mind flayers and the drow reaction if one brings the proof of the ilithid's death suggests that the drow parley in most cases.Nicolas "Ungoliant" Senachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10564991062528970332noreply@blogger.com