tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post8478212304047078711..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Underworld Overhaul, Pt. 3: Character Party SizeDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-40297722487703423772018-05-09T18:26:00.216-04:002018-05-09T18:26:00.216-04:00Chris: You have a fair point. Admittedly in my rea...Chris: You have a fair point. Admittedly in my real table game, I don't scale monsters by party size (at least: after estimating the number of players before writing an encounter location), so my thoughts in the comment above somewhat had crossed-wires. Maybe hirelings should count in the monster formula. Or maybe an interpretation should be made where they don't count, or for half, or somesuch, by the Vol-3 logic. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-42282862324849279422018-05-09T04:57:52.542-04:002018-05-09T04:57:52.542-04:00The way I figure it, you probably want hirelings f...The way I figure it, you probably want hirelings for the lower levels anyway simply because there's so much treasure. The average treasure horde on level 13+ has 17,500 gold pieces; that's six people's worth of encumbrance, or twenty people if you just go with backpack+2xLarge Sacks.<br />(Incidentally, this is also why you pay the hired help a fixed sum rather than a percentage.)<br />Or, well, you pay 20GP for a 2+1HD Mule with a 3,500GP maximum load.<br /><br />Also, well, you probably want to have someone holding the torch (or stick of Continual Light) for you so you can free up your hands. This is less of an issue if you've already got a Magic-User with nothing better to do, but in a Fighting-Man party like these tests assume?<br /><br />There's also the more sinister aspect of mercs, which is the thing where you don't need to outrun the 15/30 Spectre, <i>you only need to outrun the mercenary</i>. This is probably negative to your Loyalty scores if public, though, so beware.Neveronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06290575926119589773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-43637733699627683712018-05-08T20:36:39.447-04:002018-05-08T20:36:39.447-04:00Wouldn't any character count against the numbe...Wouldn't any character count against the number appearing formula?<br /><br />If so, then excess henchmen or hirelings just bring down more monsters on you without contributing much combat power. Hirelings naturally become useless much deeper than level 2... Henchmen are more useful longer assuming they lag only a level or two behind. <br /><br />If straphangers don't increase monster numbers appearing, then it is plausible for a team of two fighters to hire dozens of hirelings to clear the dungeon with them... And somehow a platoon of infantry attracts no more monster attention than two PCs.<br /><br />I think it's very reasonable to count any adventurer against the number appearing formula. Maybe allow one "free" straphanger per three pcs for torch bearing duties, or allow fighters a free squire as a class feature. Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17407530889660573874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-27065263511760116222018-05-08T18:03:27.603-04:002018-05-08T18:03:27.603-04:00Pretty much yes; there's (as always) a lot of ...Pretty much yes; there's (as always) a lot of room for interpretation there. For me, I assert that 0-level mercenary soldiers just won't ever go in a dungeon. For the ad cost of leveled hirelings, I interpret it as a choice of the PC; e.g., each 100 value gets 1d3 1st-level prospects to be interviewed. So that puts it barely in the range of new adventurers if they pool their extra money, maybe. (Not super feasible, but barely possible.)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-28058546756567104392018-05-08T05:36:52.513-04:002018-05-08T05:36:52.513-04:00I have to agree with that. I recently took two PCs...I have to agree with that. I recently took two PCs into the Caves of Chaos (a Magic-User with one hit point and a Fighting-Man with two), so of course they hired five mercenaries to help them.<br />They returned to the Keep with just two mercenaries, if I remember right, but more importantly they themselves were still alive and well despite having minimal hit points.<br /><br />Of course, OD&D BTB makes hirelings cost-prohibitive for a first adventure ("100 Gold Pieces would be required to tempt a human into service") and my reading of the text is that men-at-arms require an Armorer and an Armorer requires a stronghold.<br />And, of course, even if you don't need a stronghold there's a weekly 100-600GP cost to find recruits in the first place. Again, "cost-prohibitive for a first adventure".Neveronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06290575926119589773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-60151162695792423162018-05-07T19:35:08.203-04:002018-05-07T19:35:08.203-04:00I agree that we're missing a concrete example ...I agree that we're missing a concrete example in OD&D. In fact, the minimal notes there seem a bit slapdash and not fully formed. <br /><br />So I have made an interpretive call; actually using monster level (1-6) for scaling would make for mostly gruesome massacres, esp. since the power level of level 6 monsters varies so widely (unbounded above). The one thing I've done on that page of my OD&D copy (Vol-3, p. 11) is to scratch out the word "level" (in "level of the monster") and write in "EHD" in its place, which makes for a rational way of dealing with that issue.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-18677971651491674392018-05-07T19:29:12.641-04:002018-05-07T19:29:12.641-04:00I would think so. I'm a little stumped at why ...I would think so. I'm a little stumped at why my current players have declined to do that (see: The Master's Monastery posts). Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-48374262826090333962018-05-07T08:59:32.533-04:002018-05-07T08:59:32.533-04:00See this is why it is important to have hirelings/...See this is why it is important to have hirelings/followers. Some extra fodder for the monsters, but a smaller cut of XP/Treasure (or none if they don't survive) :) Win Win!Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-10869554470308571712018-05-07T08:25:17.632-04:002018-05-07T08:25:17.632-04:00>NA = scaleFactor × level / EHD
This seems off,...><i>NA = scaleFactor × level / EHD</i><br />This seems off, I think? The one example I know of that hints at the authorial intent of the cryptic<br />><i>If the level beneath the surface roughly corresponds with the level of the monster then the number of monsters will be based on a single creature[...]</i><br />is AD&D's random encounter tables, where the "level of the monster" seems to be the "monster level" (as per the table, albeit expanded to I-X in AD&D) and the increase in number is a fairly simple +100%/level.<br />e.g. the by-the-book Kobolds would appear 1x on L1, 2x on L2; hobgoblins 1x on L1-2, 2X on L3; Wraiths 1x on L1-4, 2x on L5, up to 4x on L7.<br /><br />This does make lower dungeon levels <i>exceptionally</i> deadly, but OD&D seems somewhat built on the assumption that you'll just have a dozen or so levels. I don't know if a sole Fighter facing four Purple Worms on L10 is the intended result, but AD&D still has you face one with an additional "attendant monster" (or you could face 40d4+20 (120) kobolds, or 20d4 (50) hobgoblins, or six seven-headed hydras -- there's no limit for when low-HD monsters stop appearing).<br />Then again, AD&D doesn't have the rule for multiplying monster numbers by ROUNDUP($partySize / 3).<br /><br />In any case, the main difference between your ruling and AD&D's is that the latter increases the number of high-level monsters more (and also goes by Monster Level rather than hit dice).<br /><br /><br />Incidentally, Arneson's system in The First Fantasy Campaign is entirely different and not that useful for puzzling this out. The OD&D number of monsters seems to be Gygax attempting to simplify stuff and failing to give solid examples, from what I can tell?Neveronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06290575926119589773noreply@blogger.com