tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post7626654586779961430..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Spells Through The Ages – Invisible StalkerDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-17314804330585992432018-12-20T12:03:45.379-05:002018-12-20T12:03:45.379-05:00I'm pretty sure that clipart is from an actual...I'm pretty sure that clipart is from an actual superhero game; certainly not any D&D 0-4E. However, the gag in 2E was that the illustration was an <a href="https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/1006631897525440513" rel="nofollow">entirely blank frame</a>.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-4303750046792251492018-12-18T13:25:29.029-05:002018-12-18T13:25:29.029-05:00Do you remember an image of the stalker that was b...Do you remember an image of the stalker that was basically a "draw your hero" template against a wall? http://clipart-library.com/img/1999180.png<br />Or am I confusing it with another monster?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833739290529057151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-50205154464502070812014-11-02T11:01:06.053-05:002014-11-02T11:01:06.053-05:00Great take on it. :-) I did think with these top-l...Great take on it. :-) I did think with these top-level spells that's an area where I wanted more room for different DM's to bring their interpretations to the table. Maybe even better if you have your own time-limits that the players don't fully know about.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-1731008091196140162014-11-01T18:00:43.413-04:002014-11-01T18:00:43.413-04:00Yeah, I suppose that depends on how you envision t...Yeah, I suppose that depends on how you envision the thing. Me, I see it as a monstrous beast with no particular interest in human affairs, all rending claws and dispassionate cruelty, that is compelled by sorcery to perform the bidding of the mage. It finds the task interesting enough at first, but quickly grows impatient with merely human activities and wishes to move away from this cage of matter and light back to its unnameable dimensions of existence. Drinking wine and watching dancing girls would be no different to the invisible stalker of my conception than throttling a baby or disemboweling a soldier. Actions performed within our existence hold no meaning for it, except that they provide the hope of escaping the black iron prison of existence as we understand it.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-37881757284253467642014-11-01T10:25:19.798-04:002014-11-01T10:25:19.798-04:00Yeah, I felt like that was an outside possibility ...Yeah, I felt like that was an outside possibility of an interpretation myself. The thing is, if that was the intent, it would make more sense to reverse the location of each statement (Vol-1 saying it <i>could</i> be dispelled, in reference to the controlling spell, and a trap for players; and Vol-2 saying it <i>couldn't</i> be dispelled, in reference to the free-willed monster, giving the teeth of the trap to the DM). Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-51418354366421574972014-11-01T10:19:55.013-04:002014-11-01T10:19:55.013-04:00Or here's another example: "Pretend to be...Or here's another example: "Pretend to be our missing king, wearing his concealing robe of state, drinking his wine and watching his dancing girls, until we can find him", the stalker might not find so burdensome. (In fact, in that case, maybe it would resist <i>ending</i> the task.)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-84559372492102102662014-10-31T21:33:41.831-04:002014-10-31T21:33:41.831-04:00Interesting. The best I could come up with was th...Interesting. The best I could come up with was that <i>Dispel Magic</i> would work, but an M-U couldn't simply dismiss the Stalker if they change their mind. It's that classic trope of trying to call off a hitman, though that's usually the result of a mistakeHolly Oatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01703437987958922954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-42836666349331529532014-10-31T12:39:38.845-04:002014-10-31T12:39:38.845-04:00About the discrepancy between M&M and M&T ...About the discrepancy between M&M and M&T in the OD&D version: the first says that the monster itself cannot "be dispelled", but the second one says that a <i>Dispell magic</i> spell can "work" in order to "stop" it. <br />In other words, the spell itself is not going to destroy or banish the Stalker, but could free him from its orders (with unforeseen consquences for the invoking MU).porphyre77https://www.blogger.com/profile/07620350717226228078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-46389000516719062042014-10-30T21:14:36.972-04:002014-10-30T21:14:36.972-04:00Yeah, I guess that's a fair point. Of course t...Yeah, I guess that's a fair point. Of course the spell can (apparently) just call any outsider of up to 8HD, so there's nothing special about the invisible stalker. And what it really does is just trap the entity and then engage in daily Charisma checks to see if it agrees to terms or escapes; you may not get any service at all out of it. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-34652021318877460452014-10-30T21:05:56.094-04:002014-10-30T21:05:56.094-04:00The 3rd edition more generic Planar Binding (sor/w...The 3rd edition more generic Planar Binding (sor/wis 6) spell is fairly compatible to the earlier Invisible Stalker spell and would be the go to spell for longer term summoning (although it gives a max of 1 day/level for indefinate duration tasks)Al Sanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03090759227088455075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-75091244198071169542014-10-30T20:59:12.090-04:002014-10-30T20:59:12.090-04:00Geas: (Range: 6 inches, Duration: Permanent) A gea...<i><b>Geas:</b> (Range: 6 inches, Duration: Permanent) A geas places a magical command on a creature to carry out some service or to refrain from some activity, language-permitting. If the subject does not obey the geas, then he or she loses one point of Strength per day (death occurs at 0 Strength). It cannot be dispelled, and remove curse is ineffective. The DM should assess the strength of the geas (it cannot result in certain death), and ways of possibly ending one.</i>Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-82414770484736903602014-10-30T20:48:00.125-04:002014-10-30T20:48:00.125-04:00I wouldn't even worry about whether it's a...I wouldn't even worry about whether it's abusive or not from a game balance perspective. Just look at it from the Stalker's POV. "Kill this Gray Mouser fellow? Sure, I can do that!" "Protect this dude from all harm? Not seeing an end condition there, so screw him!" The one issue would be definite durations of time, like your turning a crank for a century example. I'd put a limit in the spell for that sort of thing, like a day or a week. That's only when giving a specific duration of time. The Stalker might spend longer hunting the Gray Mouser if he continually evades capture, but there's still a definite end condition, unlike the guarding exampleHolly Oatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01703437987958922954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-68631988239699486622014-10-30T13:26:38.093-04:002014-10-30T13:26:38.093-04:00Really good question; yes I do keep geas in the sy...Really good question; yes I do keep geas in the system and it's pretty close to being totally open-ended and quite powerful. I did at least entertain the thought that there should be some countermanding *bonus* to the geas (like to strength or to-hit or something), kind of like in the Cuchulain myth. But that's off from classic D&D too much for my intent. I'll try to post the exact text here tonight when I get home.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-78160078331329295962014-10-30T13:22:02.199-04:002014-10-30T13:22:02.199-04:00Partly I'm influenced by module O1 (Gem and th...Partly I'm influenced by module O1 (Gem and the Staff) where there are at least two invisible stalkers that serve to just follow the PC around in certain places and give mangled riddles about the setting. Maybe there should be added flexibility for stuff like that (or maybe that itself was a result of subversion).Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-25174106162372575042014-10-30T13:18:17.002-04:002014-10-30T13:18:17.002-04:00I can see why you're saying that. I did find m...I can see why you're saying that. I did find myself sliding in a direction where the top-level spells in particular (6th-level in OD&D) were intentionally being given extra wiggle-room for DM interpretation. In fact, I added a passage in this regard to the Foreword of the book; I think it's quite likely that any quality DM adjudicating world-bending stuff like control weather, legend lore, contact higher plane, invisible stalker, geas, reincarnation, etc. will need to do some massaging or interpretations or secret rulings to mesh with their campaign setting/milieu. <br /><br />In the case of invisible stalker, I think it would also have to interact with the exact wording and nature of the task itself (similar to say, a wish or geas). Like maybe the DM thinks "guard my front gate forever" is abusive; or maybe only so when the PC summons a 2nd and 3rd stalker on successive days. But maybe "turn the crank on my automatic astrolab for a century" is amusing (to DM and stalker) and that gets permitted. So inasmuch as what counts as a "boring ongoing task" needs DM interpretation in the first place, I didn't want to accidentally handcuff anyone with a seemingly hard and fast rule. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-31292603907901205382014-10-30T13:04:24.219-04:002014-10-30T13:04:24.219-04:00Ooh god. [vertigo] Thanks for the compliment!!Ooh god. [vertigo] Thanks for the compliment!!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-56036008143906368132014-10-30T13:03:09.311-04:002014-10-30T13:03:09.311-04:00It's such a crazy move in 3E that it's eas...It's such a crazy move in 3E that it's easy to overlook. Here, have an invisible stalker for 13 6-second rounds, you're welcome.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-83728214569994160802014-10-30T13:01:32.246-04:002014-10-30T13:01:32.246-04:00Oh, wonderful, wonderful. I never thought of that,...Oh, wonderful, wonderful. I never thought of that, now I'll always connect the two.<br /><br />I also think there was some surly Vancian invisible demon that people cite when these aspects come up?Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-15025759832860850702014-10-30T12:59:35.482-04:002014-10-30T12:59:35.482-04:00Well, an intriguing possibility. Partly I'm se...Well, an intriguing possibility. Partly I'm seeing "this" (in "this is accomplished") as referring to the immediately prior "place him in suspended animation". If it referred to the "fulfill this endless duty" it would seem contradictory. And of course later iterations indicate that Gygax was thinking of when perversion of duty occurs.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-50964798686223780362014-10-30T12:54:01.319-04:002014-10-30T12:54:01.319-04:00Thanks for reminding me about the wacky original P...Thanks for reminding me about the wacky original Permanent Spell. :-) To a certain extent, gauging high-vs-low level is already built into dispel magic, so I would tend to not want to make a new rule in that regard within a spell.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-15816543923106249642014-10-30T12:51:12.153-04:002014-10-30T12:51:12.153-04:00That's perhaps one example of over-systematizi...That's perhaps one example of over-systematizing things in AD&D (and elsewhere).Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-25325398304720469862014-10-30T12:50:26.124-04:002014-10-30T12:50:26.124-04:00Absolutely.Absolutely.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-51776382118157753612014-10-30T12:50:09.358-04:002014-10-30T12:50:09.358-04:00That's great!That's great! Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-23230010341790599772014-10-29T17:17:52.281-04:002014-10-29T17:17:52.281-04:00What's interesting about the OD&D version,...What's interesting about the OD&D version, if you interpret it as Confanity and I have, is that it's immediate. The Stalker in the example was annoyed because there's no end condition to its services, so right away it perverts the order. Had the wizard instead commanded it to hunt down a particular foe, it might persist to do so even if they evaded capture for months on end (which would be beyond the wizard's control)<br /><br />If we want the Stalker to grow bored after some time, though, then I'd agree that something like AD&D's approach would be desirable. In absence of that, I suppose the referee could always do a reaction check or somethingHolly Oatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01703437987958922954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-68796174092268845792014-10-29T13:44:32.351-04:002014-10-29T13:44:32.351-04:00Thinking it over for a few days (well, not the ent...Thinking it over for a few days (well, not the entire time, of course), I find myself missing the objective measure of how long the Stalker will serve before attempting to pervert the intent of its instructions. It's fine for the DM to have input into the process, but I think that a specific roll for how quickly the Stalker gets bored is preferable. It's like the reason that XP for gold is better than XP for "quality of roleplaying" - it doesn't rely much on subjective and arguable judgements.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.com