tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post7024534120692730726..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Spells Through The Ages – Magic JarDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-61370856924341530562019-03-04T10:54:27.991-05:002019-03-04T10:54:27.991-05:00(In any case it's really good to hear about th...(In any case it's really good to hear about these high-level campaign issues I haven't personally dealt with to date.)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-15682167494068149372019-03-04T10:53:48.656-05:002019-03-04T10:53:48.656-05:00Ah, I see what you're saying. Interestingly, i...Ah, I see what you're saying. Interestingly, in OD&D the Staff of The Magi doesn't have that absorption capability. For the Rod of Absorption, you don't think the charge-limit-cannot-ever-be-reused is a sufficient restriction? (That's present in both OD&D and AD&D.)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-65305263159413960322019-03-04T09:54:39.717-05:002019-03-04T09:54:39.717-05:00Rod of absorption, Staff of the Magi, the base ite...Rod of absorption, Staff of the Magi, the base items that allowed you to absorb an incoming spell and use the spell level energy for your own spells without having to cast it. That power leads to near infinite spells. (Party mages even cast spells at each other to keep their charges high).Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07231632021329722552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-7336564458926856072019-03-03T17:48:57.814-05:002019-03-03T17:48:57.814-05:00Thank you for posting that! I've been wonderin...Thank you for posting that! I've been wondering for some time if it didn't make sense in the campaign for almost all high-level wizards to have magic jars for security purposes -- interesting you totally saw that in your campaign. <br /><br />In my OD&D we don't have "clone" on the books, so I'm wondering if that changes the moral calculus for getting new bodies? (By the way, what's "absorption"?)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-7820038762227546062019-03-03T12:14:51.370-05:002019-03-03T12:14:51.370-05:00Nice post Delta.
I will add that I have seen Magi...Nice post Delta.<br /><br />I will add that I have seen Magic-Jar used and abused to point that every PC Wizard above 9th level would start to use as method of avoiding death. The idea was to build a soul gem that was as indestructible as possible, you carried the gem with you. They often had Non-detects or higher level enchantments and eventually special container to carry them in. It was not considered an evil act, people would take over Clones of themselves or other created bodies for this purpose. If you died in combat you retreated to your soul gem until your party fixed the body and you could go back. (or your trigger spells went off and fixed the body), It was high level crazy play and when I started playing again I banned the spell. (magic jar, intelligent items and absorption were the three powers that really lead to game breaking power)Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07231632021329722552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-13772834830294986252018-07-20T15:38:28.387-04:002018-07-20T15:38:28.387-04:00I have seen this spell used. Twice, now, at the ta...I have seen this spell used. Twice, now, at the table. And it is really creepy I’ve got to say. It seems like it should be linked to, affected by or affecting the character’s alignment in some way.Tetramorphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07253316716885460459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-18224539225987353942015-12-06T04:06:11.137-05:002015-12-06T04:06:11.137-05:00There is a creature in the 3.5e mmII called yak-fo...There is a creature in the 3.5e mmII called yak-folk they have a racial ability to possess another humanoid creature using the same mechanisms as magic jar as specified in said edition. The yak folk also have a racial ability to summon a janni (geni) slave to do their dirty work. I played a pc yak folk with a scaled down hitdice sorc druid. The dm took down th hitdice because the challenge rating was particularly high for a level two player character. Named Rindari SwiftthistleAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03327641644105708456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-43994636400972591362015-10-12T19:04:54.901-04:002015-10-12T19:04:54.901-04:00Interesting theory!Interesting theory!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-22250346329009465652015-10-12T15:34:21.941-04:002015-10-12T15:34:21.941-04:00The AD&D era adventure "Death Unchained&q...The AD&D era adventure "Death Unchained" (for the Ravenloft setting) contains a wizard who abuses magic jar to torment his enemies and make it difficult to defeat him. (Oddly, the same wizard has coated his actual body in a deadly contact poison that he is immune to, thanks to a special magic ring.)<br /><br />My suspicion has always been that someone on the D&D 3E design team, likely Jonathan Tweet, played through that module and thought the spell was far too powerful as presented there, so 'nerfed' it for the new edition.D Wintheiserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09116568738328503482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-30482313090686988402014-09-05T20:17:45.766-04:002014-09-05T20:17:45.766-04:00One other note from Facebook today -- Ernie Gygax ...One other note from Facebook today -- Ernie Gygax wrote about the spell: "As an aside in Greyhawk it was the caster leaving the body and entering anothers. After much deadly use of such in a room filled with Gorgons and many other mass melees, Dad made it so that I could only see so many forms out there within the radius roll randomly to see which you attempt to take over..."Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-34898104450166949112014-09-05T20:13:10.010-04:002014-09-05T20:13:10.010-04:00Another modern literary example from a reader on F...Another modern literary example from a reader on Facebook: "Taran Wanderer (1964) which had an evil unkillable mage who placed his soul in a bit of bone (I think it was his pinky finger bone perhaps?) and died when Taran broke the bone after realising he could not stabitty stabitty the wizard to death..."Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-28754623056206890102014-07-30T11:41:06.559-04:002014-07-30T11:41:06.559-04:00Interesting!Interesting!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-62693024942831214292014-07-29T22:02:17.061-04:002014-07-29T22:02:17.061-04:00Also, to answer your question, I think the DM had ...Also, to answer your question, I think the DM had a ghost try this on a character once in 3.5 and fail. <br /><br />I have never seen a player use it.Thiles Targonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02928790313150694394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-41302587746564602342014-07-29T22:00:01.773-04:002014-07-29T22:00:01.773-04:00Yeah I know what your saying, I don't really w...Yeah I know what your saying, I don't really want to do it either, but I'm just guessing a player can come up with something like I cast it on Mjölnir, which is indestructible, can't be lost and already detects as magic, or something crazier the DM has not foreseen.Thiles Targonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02928790313150694394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-9689571393081626532014-07-29T21:08:54.721-04:002014-07-29T21:08:54.721-04:00Yeah, that's not bad. My only qualm is that it...Yeah, that's not bad. My only qualm is that it is one of the longer spell descriptions and I'd lean towards not adding more text; a <i>detect magic</i> can suffice to find it.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-53420036008052650852014-07-29T19:35:34.774-04:002014-07-29T19:35:34.774-04:00I agree, I like the OD&D version the best, the...I agree, I like the OD&D version the best, the only change I would make is limit the jar to a specific kind (or several kinds) of objects, to ensure the jar is breakable, and to limit the search some.Thiles Targonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02928790313150694394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-26866570821323113302014-07-29T16:32:27.075-04:002014-07-29T16:32:27.075-04:00I agree! Like a lot of stuff, I didn't really ...I agree! Like a lot of stuff, I didn't really understand the spell until I saw the original 0E text.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-1757826210989325222014-07-29T16:31:23.094-04:002014-07-29T16:31:23.094-04:00You know, I'm kind of with Joshua (below), onc...You know, I'm kind of with Joshua (below), once again I get the clearest picture of the spell when I read the OD&D text (which I only obtained much later in life). I don't see anything in the later editions that counts as an improvement, so personally I'd just go with OD&D as written in this case. The "Magic-User is totally <b>annihilated</b>" in case of magic jar destruction seems like a pretty elegant vulnerability.<br /><br />Although if someone wrote an edition that flat-out removed it, and made it some outside complicated ritual for Liches, I could see that, too.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-56178653667361059102014-07-29T09:34:05.519-04:002014-07-29T09:34:05.519-04:00I've never seen this actually used. I definite...I've never seen this actually used. I definitely prefer the 0e version, which is actually clearer than I had previously thought.Joshua L. Lylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358762663581842879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-4466141565624938182014-07-28T23:23:33.868-04:002014-07-28T23:23:33.868-04:00I think the duration has to be a minimum of day/le...I think the duration has to be a minimum of day/level or week/level in the new body, if not permanent. I’m not as concerned how long the period is the mage has to find a victim. <br />I don’t like having the mage die when the host body dies unless with a couple hundred feet of the jar, that does not really match the source material.<br /><br />I do think unlimited duration and unlimited distance from the soul jar at time of death is perhaps too powerful. Giving a duration of a week/level in the new body would require the mage to refresh the spell periodically. Perhaps they can extend it by recasting while still in the new body and holding the soul jar. This would give some weakness to exploit.<br /><br />What do you think the ideal spell would look like?<br />Thiles Targonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02928790313150694394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-22544803433947826482014-07-28T11:24:37.419-04:002014-07-28T11:24:37.419-04:00Ha! I would totally be prone to doing the same thi...Ha! I would totally be prone to doing the same thing. (For me, it's the expanded range of <i>clairvoyance</i> that gets me.)<br /><br />For what it's worth, the list in 3E <i>permanency</i> of spells that it explicitly works with is about the same as 1E -- no <i>magic jar</i>. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-53924556920315765622014-07-28T08:24:30.682-04:002014-07-28T08:24:30.682-04:00Only ever as a plot device. To the point where I ...Only ever as a plot device. To the point where I had used it in 3rd edition, and not noticed the rule adjustments from 2nd, oops.<br />I wonder if the 3rd ed version was intended to be used with a Permanency spell to get the more literary effect.Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.com