tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post700031315382949333..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Catapult Variation in ChainmailDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-81097696938287017172011-07-23T22:25:06.098-04:002011-07-23T22:25:06.098-04:00Mel -- Good stuff to look at! That does match my i...Mel -- Good stuff to look at! That does match my intuition that granularity would be an issue, I'm not sure how you'd solve that elegantly. Back in my "normalizing resolutions" post I had to resort to a table which simulated normal-curve rolls, I couldn't immediately find a way out of that.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-17502667076668735122011-07-23T19:56:23.107-04:002011-07-23T19:56:23.107-04:00Ok, I'm going to clutter your blog with anothe...Ok, I'm going to clutter your blog with another comment.<br /><br />Yeah, granularity is definitely an issue. I punched up 200 trials in Excel for rolling pairs of each dice type (d20 to d4). I calculated the probability of the result falling within a difference of 0, 1, 2,... Here are the results out to differences of 5.<br /><br /><br />diff d20 d12 d10 d8 d6 d4<br /><br />0 .05 .06 .07 .13 .14 .27<br />1 .14 .22 .25 .35 .38 .60<br />2 .22 .38 .44 .53 .64 .85<br />3 .34 .47 .58 .71 .79 1.0<br />4 .39 .61 .72 .84 .91 n/a<br />5 .46 .70 .83 .92 1.0 n/a<br /><br />Let's say that "Medium" means a diff of 5 or less. "Hard" means a diff of 2 or less. "Heroic" means a diff of 0. With a d20, this means raw probabilities of approximately .46, .22, and .05.<br /><br />Say a character wants to jump 10' up in the air to grab a rope in order to escape an oncoming stream of lava. The DM judges that this is "Hard," and tests strength. The character rolls 2 d20s, and gets a 5 and a 8, for a diff of 3, which would mean a failure, BUT the character happens to have a strength bonus of +1, and that means that he just managed to jump up and grab the rope.<br /><br />Minimal calculations. No table look up, and the method (rolling two dice and hoping to minimize "error") just seems more "right" as a means of testing whether something was correctly done. <br /><br />The problem is how to capture getting better with experience. The probabilities given for the d20 feel right to me for a 1st level character. As a character levels up the natural thing to do would be to lower the dice types every couple of levels. This is fine from the d12 on down, but the jump from the d20 to the d12 is too large.Melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551480034601737297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-19838142236560121282011-07-23T18:04:34.261-04:002011-07-23T18:04:34.261-04:00Hey, Mel -- Yeah, I think potentially those are go...Hey, Mel -- Yeah, I think potentially those are good ideas. Definitely the idea of rolling dice and trying to get in the "middle" (with more liberal criteria for more skilled characters) is a better model of what people intend when they say "roll to a bell curve". <br /><br />Sometimes I worry about the granularity available in such a system (like as you say, we've only got a few different types of dice to swap in & out). But I think you've got some good pieces to start with there.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-35211586300984130222011-07-22T15:33:51.404-04:002011-07-22T15:33:51.404-04:00Nice, Dan! I wonder if this mechanic couldn't...Nice, Dan! I wonder if this mechanic couldn't be used as a generic skill check -- one that incorporates the ideas of variance that you touched on in another of your blog posts. Roll two dice, d20s say, and take the difference, add/subtract appropriate bonuses, et voila. The closer the difference is to zero the better the result. Easy tasks or more skilled individuals have a larger range of success (e.g., difference within 5, etc). Harder tasks or less skilled individuals need to get closer to the ideal zero difference. Crazy difficult tasks need to get zero difference with particular numbers (e.g. both dice odds, both dice >15, etc.)<br /><br />You could also account for difficulty / skill by changing dice. E.g., move from d20s to d10s.<br /><br />Heck, you could even hash up a way to use this as system for dealing with opposed rolls (e.g., duels). Both sides roll their dice. Smaller difference wins.<br /><br />Come to think of it, here's a new attack resolution system based on opposition as opposed to everyone getting their turn to attack. Two opponents roll their two dice. Lowest difference wins. Winner rolls d20+damage dice+bonuses. Amount over AC (ascending) is HP of damage.<br /><br />You've certainly given me a lot to mull over.Melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551480034601737297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-73106217901274071042011-07-22T12:42:59.498-04:002011-07-22T12:42:59.498-04:00Alan: Yes, that's also equivalent.
Limpey: I ...Alan: Yes, that's also equivalent.<br /><br />Limpey: I agree that there's other issues even if the "greater/lesser" issue were fixed. For example, the variation doesn't scale with distance of the shot or anything (ability to drop it 1" ahead is almost nil; then about as likely to fall somewhere behind you).Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-82783597734666724702011-07-22T11:22:46.720-04:002011-07-22T11:22:46.720-04:00I didn't like that the skill of the crew or ot...I didn't like that the skill of the crew or other considerations did not modify their chances of hitting anything. Perhaps a modification of plusses and minuses to allow the player to switch out d4s for the d6s if they have an advantage or a d8 or d12 if they have a disadvantage. <br /><br />On the other hand, seeing the crestfallen look of your opponent as he plopped a boulder in the midst of his own heavy foot while aiming for your wolf cavalry was always fun.Stefan Poaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192911890556534923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-86659064586970863402011-07-22T10:56:52.612-04:002011-07-22T10:56:52.612-04:00I think that you get the same probability curve if...I think that you get the same probability curve if you roll 2d6, and treat one as a positive number and the other as a negative number, then sum for the result. This was the method used by the Feng Shui rpg, IIRC.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999861302655014098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-31990262400769356562011-07-22T09:34:27.067-04:002011-07-22T09:34:27.067-04:00Yep.Yep.Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.com