tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post5437894198523386366..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Spells Through the Ages – Phantasmal ForcesDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-47804567481657152642018-01-06T19:34:10.856-05:002018-01-06T19:34:10.856-05:00I would have never thought of a ____ never having ...I would have never thought of a ____ never having seen a ____ to mean your illusion can't work, however now that it has been said.... A Phantasmal Force has only SIGHT to make it work- no heat, smell, sound, etc. so a ___ might NOT be effected by something if it has no reference or the other things that go into one BELIEVING what they see has,I think, merit. Especially if the thing is not smart, so over-the-top that the viewer is stunned and says/thinks "is that real"?Gorteckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01642572901508736521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-66183374629661226262017-04-23T09:04:03.888-04:002017-04-23T09:04:03.888-04:00On Facebook, Ken Marin points out two literary sou...On Facebook, Ken Marin points out two literary source for a "ghost soldiers" type spell (i.e., Chainmail-flavor phantasmal forces): The Fox Woman by A.J. Merritt; and Thuvia Maid of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs. (And possibly Arthur Machen and Tolkien?)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-42120699001857777932012-06-08T23:30:42.916-04:002012-06-08T23:30:42.916-04:00glipkerio -- Ouch! Yeah, that's a very unique ...glipkerio -- Ouch! Yeah, that's a very unique ruling I've never heard of before. It's common to restrict to things the caster has seen, but never heard of limiting to target's awareness (although I suppose I can imagine it, for the purpose of the illusory damage factor). <br /><br />For what it's worth, Skip Williams once wrote in the "Sage Advice" Q&A column -- "Technically speaking, however, an phantasm exists only in the victim’s mind (e.g., <i>phantasmal killer</i>), whereas an illusion is a sensory impression that any being might perceive if close enough. The various <i>phantasmal force</i> spells are true illusions, in spite of the name." [Dragon #175, p. 78]Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-63294411529602065332012-05-08T04:11:08.716-04:002012-05-08T04:11:08.716-04:00I recently started playing in a AD&D 1E game a...I recently started playing in a AD&D 1E game and this spell has cause me no end of trouble with my DM. Not because I am abusing it, but because every use I put it to is vetoed. One area of contention, is my DM limits what can be created by the spell to things the target knows about. So if a subterranean bug has never seen fire, I can't use it. I certainly respect my DM's ruling, but my interpretation of the text is that it is that my character's mind that creates the illusion and projects it and it's effect in to the minds of the targets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-2457255443271004592012-03-05T01:05:48.974-05:002012-03-05T01:05:48.974-05:00^ Very interesting! Also not a bad way to work a s...^ Very interesting! Also not a bad way to work a solution.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-39761732172039690432012-02-26T08:28:28.862-05:002012-02-26T08:28:28.862-05:00Dragon #130 has "Hold onto your Illusions&quo...Dragon #130 has "Hold onto your Illusions", by Brian Tillotson. It's a 5-page work that I'd summarise as giving 1 HD of monsters (or spell damage) in your illusion per caster level (which is -2 for Magic Users and -5 for Thieves) before giving free disbelief.<br /><br />So a 12th level Wizard dropping Phantasmal Forces can create up to 10 HD of monsters, or a fake 4th level Wizard blasting away with a wand of 6 HD fireballs, or repeat the illusion of casting a 10 HD fireball into the area over and over again. Fun.<br /><br />That plus an automated disbelief system (and punishing disbelief for those who force it), and a solid discussion of how damage works (you also get an illusion of yourself all crispy and on fire, after the fireball).tussockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01624091727724404725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-46774305743541291152012-02-08T11:44:30.746-05:002012-02-08T11:44:30.746-05:00^ Great reference to the John Carter story, very i...^ Great reference to the John Carter story, very interesting to know that!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-72511340020011649392012-02-08T10:40:25.918-05:002012-02-08T10:40:25.918-05:00There is a john carter of mars story where some ch...There is a john carter of mars story where some character or other mentally brought forth a brigade of phantasmal forces that fought on the battlefield, no doubt this is the explanation for the existance of the spell. <br /><br />An illusionary pit is a straw man argument. Nobody is going to fall into an illusionary pit unless the are pushed, the caster cannot "make one appear" under the feet of his enemies without granting an "automatic disbelief check" aka saving throw because of the noise requirement of a trap opening, same goes for a cave-in.UWS guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01277557128674527225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-12677893470408347362012-02-07T13:42:38.468-05:002012-02-07T13:42:38.468-05:00^ I bet you'll like it. Solid, compact, and I&...^ I bet you'll like it. Solid, compact, and I've always been fond of the artwork (more so than the later Mentzer edition).<br /><br />I suppose the only thing I really hold against it is the invention of race-as-class.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-79153284225314243062012-02-07T02:25:41.104-05:002012-02-07T02:25:41.104-05:00You've sold me; I just ordered a (used) copy o...You've sold me; I just ordered a (used) copy of Moldvay basic to see what all the fuss is about. Great writeup; fascinating stuff.Timrod https://www.blogger.com/profile/15308269015770538709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-22874520889043404582012-02-06T23:29:31.893-05:002012-02-06T23:29:31.893-05:00^ Totally discovering the same thing the more I do...^ Totally discovering the same thing the more I do this.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-46617304637030533682012-02-06T20:09:13.508-05:002012-02-06T20:09:13.508-05:00Great info/summary/analysis.
Once again, Moldvay ...Great info/summary/analysis.<br /><br />Once again, Moldvay stands above the pack. Jeez...the guy doesn't get enough credit!JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-29549532485917475212012-02-06T19:52:05.138-05:002012-02-06T19:52:05.138-05:00Good analysis.Good analysis.Theodric the Obscurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18201793290118146978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-50096288526443018182012-02-06T15:47:31.188-05:002012-02-06T15:47:31.188-05:00It's always interesting to see how a spell spe...It's always interesting to see how a spell specifically made for one area (large scale battles) is repurposed for more utilitarian roles. Then the gradual changes and fixes over the editions to try and address the issues they missed and the ones that came up through play.<br /><br />"Personally, I'm having a hard time imagining any circumstances where the illusion could cause damage without touching the victim in question (and thereby disappearing and disrupting the effect, right?)"<br /><br />Well if your definition of HP includes a hefty Morale component it could work. The caster summons some mind-melting Lovecraftian creature and the opposing forces lose their nerve. Bonus points if it ends in a scooby doo chase scene.Van Noahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13001103794042256370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-60319689959833422172012-02-06T12:11:27.952-05:002012-02-06T12:11:27.952-05:00^ Alex: That's definitely a possible interpret...^ Alex: That's definitely a possible interpretation, although when I considered it, if they did do damage normally then it would make it consistent/explanatory with the damage-dealing ability later in OD&D/AD&D (which is otherwise very weird). <br /><br />If we could find someone who played with the designers at the time, I'd bet $1 that the phantasmal forces fought normally. But I might be on the losing end of that.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-18733608106380751512012-02-06T10:00:41.928-05:002012-02-06T10:00:41.928-05:00I think, in the Chainmail version, an "appari...I think, in the Chainmail version, an "apparition of a unit" means an illusory unit. The unit could be used for a feint, as bait, to "guard" an otherwise exposed area, or make a larger unit look too powerful to face directly. I suspect it couldn't be used in actual combat.<br /><br />Though 4 turns seems rather limiting.Alex J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00147269991231314528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-28788591908344867632012-02-06T09:20:46.985-05:002012-02-06T09:20:46.985-05:00Once again, great work Dan. You probably know thi...Once again, great work Dan. You probably know this already, but it's worth mentioning that the first 4 spells in CHAINMAIL are the original 4 from the 1st edition of 1971.DHBoggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02170439175265397893noreply@blogger.com