tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post4883588238982209545..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Halfling Weapons Through the AgesDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-11066460731220102402018-01-06T17:35:31.556-05:002018-01-06T17:35:31.556-05:00A fair point at higher levels, but at low to mid l...A fair point at higher levels, but at low to mid levels the AC numbers are actually fairly similar to older editions; maybe 1 or 2 points higher to compensate for the fact that fighters with 15 or 16 Strength are getting bonuses on par with what you got for having an 18 in older editions. IIRC it's really starting at CR 7 monsters that the AC starts to skyrocket.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14285793254382192231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-48607440711527020112018-01-06T12:59:26.666-05:002018-01-06T12:59:26.666-05:00Interesting!Interesting!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-44219219393847525572018-01-06T12:59:07.459-05:002018-01-06T12:59:07.459-05:00Yeah, I'm more persuaded by faoladh here. Havi...Yeah, I'm more persuaded by faoladh here. Having just re-read The Hobbit and gotten clobbered repeatedly by Tolkien about how incredible their eyesight is (e.g., beating even dwarves in the darkness of Mirkwood) my intuition is there really is something "supernatural" (compared to men) that should be reflected with an added bonus here.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-70350134990399193262018-01-06T12:54:04.428-05:002018-01-06T12:54:04.428-05:00True, although in that 3E context of generally hig...True, although in that 3E context of generally higher bonuses and ACs it proportionally counts for less.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-26313445793664530432018-01-06T12:53:10.959-05:002018-01-06T12:53:10.959-05:00LOL, I pretty much agree. :-)LOL, I pretty much agree. :-)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-90183677067030771252018-01-05T20:23:11.141-05:002018-01-05T20:23:11.141-05:00Don't forget, though, that AD&D has very l...Don't forget, though, that AD&D has very little use for most stats. It takes a Dex of 16 (!) to get any attack bonus at all, and Halflings only get a +1 to their Dex scores. Admittedly, the 4d6s3 method is given as the preferred method for stat generation, but that only raises the average of a stat to something like 13, if I recall correctly (looking it up, it's 12.24), which with the +1 Dex brings Halflings to all of 13.24 average, for no bonus in AD&D terms. In that game, the main purpose of such stats is to act as a prerequisite for various subclasses. Since Halflings in that game are limited to Fighters and Thieves, it doesn't really do much at all for them, other than slightly increasing the number of Halflings who get a Dex bonus. I could work out the precise average of Dex bonuses, but that sounds like work, and the point is really that most Halflings still don't get one in AD&D.<br /><br />Anyway, in all versions of the game, the roll to hit is about the least useful part of combat. Outside of extreme cases, AC is not nearly as important as damage rolls. The difference between needing a 15 or a 12 to hit affects combat a lot less than whether the damage roll is on a d6 or d6+2*. (Average damage per round, given d6 damage, for 15 to hit is 1.05, while for 12 to hit it is 1.575, an increase of 0.525 average per round, but with d6+2 a 15 to hit gives a 1.65 damage per round on average, 0.6 per round better than the d6 equivalent; conclusion: a +2 to damage is more useful than a +3 to hit, though if you can get both that's better still).<br /><br />So, my point is really "don't be so afraid to give out to hit bonuses, they're nice but they're not that big a deal; keep an eye on the damage bonuses though".<br /><br />*Or d10. Each +1 to damage is equivalent, on average, to an increase of one die size across d4/d6/d8/d10/d12, then nominal size equivalents of d14, d16, etc. Which, of course, is mostly how DCC handles things, sort of.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-72582333763118866442018-01-05T17:47:33.584-05:002018-01-05T17:47:33.584-05:00I like +3 to anything that needs accuracy (so all ...I like +3 to anything that needs accuracy (so all ranged weapons). Good, yes, but I don't think it breaks the game, and it gives people a decent reason to play a hobbit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-61867664060870810642018-01-05T14:42:25.237-05:002018-01-05T14:42:25.237-05:00Huh. I've been using the straight B/X rules th...Huh. I've been using the straight B/X rules the last few years (and have had many halfling players), so that's been my default. It's been so long since I saw an AD&D (or other edition) halfling in a game, I can't remember how we handled it.<br /><br />However, just considering hobbits (based on Tolkien), I'd think that their keen-eyed sharpshooting is mainly due to a higher manual dexterity and hand-eye coordination, something already taken into account by most rules (AD&D provides halflings with a DEX bonus, and B/X makes DEX a prime requisite of the halfling class, allowing PCs to improve the score during character creation). As even non-supplement OD&D provides a bonus to missile combat for high DEX, I'd probably consider their "skill" to be appropriately modeled...nothing in Tolkien seems to suggest a supernatural amount of marksmanship deserving greater bonus (consider that CHAINMAIL mods exist as a convenient short-hand for the ability score bonuses found in a more detailed RPGs).<br /><br />RE the reduction from +3 to +1 in "basic" versions of the game: Again, I've found there to be plenty of "missile bonus" for a halfling in B/X due to the attack bonus of high DEX score (often a +2 or +3) in combination with the halfling's "racial bonus." Certainly, I've found no need to shower more missile bonus on a creature that often hits as a character 3 (or 6!) levels higher than their actual level!<br /><br />[in B/X, a 1st level halfling with an 18 DEX shoots as a 7th level fighter; a 1st level halfling with a 13 DEX shoots as a 4th level fighter]JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-45982358513476299202018-01-05T11:26:51.787-05:002018-01-05T11:26:51.787-05:00Something else to consider is that with their bonu...Something else to consider is that with their bonus to Dexterity, they sometimes in earlier editions (what with the non-linear ability score bonus tables) - and always in 3E or beyond - get +1 to hit with all missile attacks due to having higher Dexterity. So a halfling in 3.5 using a thrown weapon or sling is effectively +2 to hit compared to a human with the same rolls/array for ability scores.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14285793254382192231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-40247833622692900252018-01-03T23:39:13.762-05:002018-01-03T23:39:13.762-05:00Surely, but Thieves hardly hit much better than Ma...Surely, but Thieves hardly hit much better than Magic Users in the first place. Also, if we're talking about Thieves, then we're either talking about Greyhawk supplement or AD&D. In the latter, Halflings can reach as high as Myrmidon as a Fighter.<br /><br />Either way, though, I still don't think that a +3 is at all "unbalancing", and I still maintain that people who care much about that sort of thing are not likely to play a Hobbit/Halfling in the first place. You know, in any reasonable edition of the game. I make no claims about the WotC editions <eyes Order of the Stick suspiciously>.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-90623070664204650782018-01-03T23:32:01.067-05:002018-01-03T23:32:01.067-05:00Although indefinite levels as Thief which is what ...Although indefinite levels as Thief which is what they're likely to take.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-36913705389598553792018-01-03T11:19:51.949-05:002018-01-03T11:19:51.949-05:00Late to the party but:
Based on your sources and r...Late to the party but:<br />Based on your sources and reading a decent bonus to all ranged weapons seems to be the way to go. (I give a +1 to all ranged attacks in my game, but they get some other good stuff as well, so a +2 or ++3 would be a bit much I feel.<br /><br />I wonder if part of the reason to stick with just slings/stones was to differentiate them from elves. elves get bows, they get the rest.... (in my own game I took away the elven weapon bonuses altogether, instead I allow elven wizards to be proficient with Long Swords and Long Bows)<br /><br />I wonder if we can emulate the keen eyes in another fashion, like extending range or removing range penalties?Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-28856258236199753032018-01-02T21:20:09.089-05:002018-01-02T21:20:09.089-05:00Or if you need a balance argument, it helps compen...Or if you <i>need</i> a balance argument, it helps compensate for never being able to rise past Hero level.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-69169870315814778792018-01-02T21:10:04.812-05:002018-01-02T21:10:04.812-05:00Heh, accidentally commented out the "grin&quo...Heh, accidentally commented out the "grin" tag with angle brackets. Pretend that there's a <grin> at the end there.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-39004472124563442022018-01-02T21:08:55.159-05:002018-01-02T21:08:55.159-05:00It's not like the min-maxers are likely to pla...It's not like the min-maxers are likely to play hobbits anyway, so I'm not really concerned what they think. faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-34959171358795028022018-01-02T19:17:47.629-05:002018-01-02T19:17:47.629-05:00Thank you for that info on 4E/5E! Interesting and ...Thank you for that info on 4E/5E! Interesting and wouldn't have guessed that.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-29280631564296786992018-01-02T19:17:09.788-05:002018-01-02T19:17:09.788-05:00Hmmm. I was leaning towards that, but in the past ...Hmmm. I was leaning towards that, but in the past I got grief from some readers at +3 being too high a bonus in the system.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-22281983160650100512018-01-02T19:16:37.479-05:002018-01-02T19:16:37.479-05:00This seems reasonable to me.This seems reasonable to me.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-2485197039281693472018-01-02T09:50:00.003-05:002018-01-02T09:50:00.003-05:00When I first saw the title of this post I thought ...When I first saw the title of this post I thought it was going to be about the varying size restrictions on weapons over the years - this is a good alternative, though.<br /><br />For those curious about how WotC handled things in 4E and 5E, they didn't. They removed the bonus entirely, for whatever reason. I'm assuming that it's because of bounded accuracy in 5E, and for 4E perhaps it's a combination of being unwilling to give out a +1 racial bonus and also being unwilling to give out a free +2 to hit?Neveronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06290575926119589773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-34492751099383282412018-01-02T05:25:31.906-05:002018-01-02T05:25:31.906-05:00Given the arguments made and the relevant passages...Given the arguments made and the relevant passages from Tolkien, I'd go with +3 with all missiles.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-90074525080659804222018-01-01T11:21:33.674-05:002018-01-01T11:21:33.674-05:00I give Hobbits +3 to their attack throws using any...I give Hobbits +3 to their attack throws using any projectiles, based on the assumption that their deadly accuracy applies to any weapon that relies mainly on...accuracy. Turns out it was the right call, or at least the closest to the original thing.Wizard Lizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07976996808553118026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-64140390232216722422018-01-01T09:23:54.108-05:002018-01-01T09:23:54.108-05:00I don't remember the books but in movies (watc...I don't remember the books but in movies (watched them yesterday) hobbits made some stone throwing but never used a bow.G. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.com