tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post311715554430650945..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: My PolymorphDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-68981999153778591392014-06-06T18:34:41.948-04:002014-06-06T18:34:41.948-04:00Me too -- I've searched more than once, assumi...Me too -- I've searched more than once, assuming I must be missing something.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-63258760388040591462014-06-06T11:30:59.569-04:002014-06-06T11:30:59.569-04:00"I keep having this idea of a "D&D T..."I keep having this idea of a "D&D Tropes" site or wiki that gives specific literary references to D&D spells, monsters, and magic items."<br /><br />That is a really good idea! I'm kind of surprised it does not exist already.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08864993221502918896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-50358144767884868202014-06-06T02:32:49.810-04:002014-06-06T02:32:49.810-04:00I keep having this idea of a "D&D Tropes&...I keep having this idea of a "D&D Tropes" site or wiki that gives specific literary references to D&D spells, monsters, and magic items.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-52952029313680876962014-06-05T15:21:42.972-04:002014-06-05T15:21:42.972-04:00What really happens is, I get my appendix N type f...What really happens is, I get my appendix N type fix in smaller chucks out here on the inter webs.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08864993221502918896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-21944107189074610082014-06-05T15:20:00.536-04:002014-06-05T15:20:00.536-04:00They could practically have listed it as a require...They could practically have listed it as a requirement alongside Chainmail and Outdoor Survival." <br /><br />They could have lowered the word count that way, Hold Person 3rd level as per Conan - "People of the Black Circle", Ch. 9, of course some of these have multiple sources.<br /><br />I would love to start on Appendix N, but work and a 4 year old get in the way. I have been reading that new Conan collection that came out a few years ago, for 4 years. They put out the stories in the order he released them with the original editing.<br />Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08864993221502918896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-15118999107295689782014-06-05T01:27:03.864-04:002014-06-05T01:27:03.864-04:00Which is to say, I'm behind on my reading and ...Which is to say, I'm behind on my reading and wish I'd pursued it more clearly a few decades ago.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-89030654973475340112014-06-05T01:26:15.678-04:002014-06-05T01:26:15.678-04:00^ I was totally just thinking this today, while re...^ I was totally just thinking this today, while reading some Clark Ashton Smith for the first time. The literature is such a key assumption baked into the game. They could practically have listed it as a requirement alongside Chainmail and Outdoor Survival.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-71307024615657388332014-06-04T00:38:44.881-04:002014-06-04T00:38:44.881-04:00I always thought the turned into a newt/frog did n...I always thought the turned into a newt/frog did not belong with the greater powers of some of the other things you could become with polymorph other, and why it is considered so bad that NPCs/PCs would never want to be turned into a dragon for example; but you have found it exactly. <br />With a lot of the original material, if you don’t understand why they included some creature or spell or effect, you just need to keep reading until you read the same books Gary and Dave did.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08864993221502918896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-56686719692455340152014-06-03T13:05:41.516-04:002014-06-03T13:05:41.516-04:00Basically I agree, and that is what makes dialing ...Basically I agree, and that is what makes dialing in these spells tremendously difficult (wedging a bunch of issues into 2 spells, something sticks out). Or: The rather vast number of literary examples for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapechanging" rel="nofollow">shapechanging</a> means you can't synch with all of them. <br /><br />Another thing that I've run into is that there's a fair number of legendary examples of turning someone into a dragon or similar giant serpent, but this is considered a horrible punishment (separated from family & lover, etc.). Thematically that's in line with "newt", so you can see how it's included as permitted in OD&D -- but of course D&D dragons have fantastic combat powers that PCs are happy to use (even if not featured in those mythic stories). So you also have that collision between theme (negative) and game-effect of the beast in question (positive). And that's why in my most recent version I went with stripping out special abilities from either spell (e.g., destructive breath).Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-44333205378230604532014-06-03T00:42:53.222-04:002014-06-03T00:42:53.222-04:00I hesitate to bring this up, but it seems to me th...I hesitate to bring this up, but it seems to me there are 3 main effects we are trying to model. There is the “he turned me into a newt”. The spell that turns an opponent into some kind of harmless animal. There is the spell that grants movement powers of the new form and little else. This spell is useful for getting around and the transformation chase, seems like it should grant some of the perception too, part of the chase would be turning into blood hounds etc. The third effect is turning into a creature to gain combat and other abilities. Perhaps it would be easier to straighten out, if it was split into 3 spells (perhaps more if you need self-versus others versions). The 3rd effect seems to be causing most of the problems, you could push off all the difficult bits to that spell. It’s also a little weird that the mage can’t gain those abilities for himself (although this might be infringing on the druids turf too much). The potential loss of personality could be put with the spells you think it goes with.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08864993221502918896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-89216757523502710782014-06-02T09:53:02.551-04:002014-06-02T09:53:02.551-04:00Hmmm, my thinking (in line with 0-1-2E) was that s...Hmmm, my thinking (in line with 0-1-2E) was that some characteristic tradeoff was in order in exchange for the more fluid and repeated transformations. But maybe I should re-assess that.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-45466526221608384632014-06-02T09:50:20.513-04:002014-06-02T09:50:20.513-04:00I guess that's always a question in any editio...I guess that's always a question in any edition of D&D. I'd say yes, but then they're stuck in that form unless someone else is around who can succeed with a <i>dispel magic</i>.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-52646413701664899562014-06-01T11:15:07.448-04:002014-06-01T11:15:07.448-04:00I like the restriction of“(maximum 8 HD; cannot be...I like the restriction of“(maximum 8 HD; cannot be undead, elemental, or extraplanar).<br /><br />I would suggest altering polymorph self by adding "The caster gains the creature's appearance, armor, movement, attacks (by HD), and appropriate Strength;"<br /><br />The wizard should benefit from the spell more than your revised version allows. Adding your original version of abilities gained allows for the same benefits to both versions of polymorph.<br />lobocastlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16984912823297100482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-73122107332592086862014-06-01T01:27:39.948-04:002014-06-01T01:27:39.948-04:00Other than the ability to change form repeatedly, ...Other than the ability to change form repeatedly, it looks like polymorph other is better in all respects. Can the caster cast that on himself?Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08864993221502918896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-67225228163235115112014-06-01T00:19:14.607-04:002014-06-01T00:19:14.607-04:00Explanation: For polymorph self, I'm going bac...Explanation: For <i>polymorph self</i>, I'm going back to basics (any 0-1-2E) and allowing just movement, but multiple changes over the duration (thus: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapechanging#Transformation_chase" rel="nofollow">transformation chase</a> is possible). <br /><br />For <i>polymorph other</i>, it's "more complete" in giving combat abilities, but still no special abilities; mental state changes are off the table, making it very short. Thinking mythologically, a small number of stories give dragon breath (Fafnir), but far more important is the fact that there are practically no examples of victims losing their minds. I did put in a subject HD limit so it takes a more powerful character to turn into a powerful monster. That's where I am right now.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-46910875800693521302014-06-01T00:13:43.555-04:002014-06-01T00:13:43.555-04:00Another try:
Polymorph Other: (Range: 12 inches, ...Another try:<br /><br /><b>Polymorph Other:</b> (Range: 12 inches, Duration: 1 year) The target changes into another creature, as selected from the list in Vol-2, up to their own HD (maximum 8 HD; cannot be undead, elemental, or extraplanar). The subject gains the creature's appearance, armor, movement, and attacks (by HD). Other statistics stay the same, including mental state, and no special abilities are granted. <br /><br /><b>Polymorph Self:</b> (Range: Personal, Duration: 12 turns) The caster changes into another creature, as selected from the list in Vol-2 (maximum 8 HD; cannot be undead, elemental, or extraplanar). The caster gains the creature's appearance and movement, but no other abilities. The caster of this spell can change form as often as desired for the duration. Other spells cannot be cast while polymorphed. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-28973643879917141002014-05-31T16:11:05.015-04:002014-05-31T16:11:05.015-04:00Here's why I wouldn't bother including the...Here's why I wouldn't bother including the caster's level as a HD restriction, at least in regards to <i>polymorph self</i>: published examples including that mechanic (Expert D&D, 3.5 Revision) allow for the caster's entire level (not halved). And since the caster must be at least 7th level to get this spell in the first place, then it's effectively no different (or actually more permissive) that a fixed limit of around 6 HD.<br /><br />However, I'm coming around to a HD limit for <i>polymorph other</i>, or at least a HD-based penalty to save as in AD&D. Also, I think I'm going to delete the "revert back when dead" Cookism at the end, shortening the spell (e.g. the dwarf Otr gets killed and skinned by Loki who carries around his otter-pelt form thereafter; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fafnir#Narrative" rel="nofollow">link</a>). Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-77396478048554291222014-05-29T21:25:56.166-04:002014-05-29T21:25:56.166-04:00Looks pretty good.
“Should I require continuing m...Looks pretty good.<br /><br />“Should I require continuing monthly mental saves for polymorph other so the PC party doesn't change themselves all into dragons on an extended basis?”<br /><br />I think I would base it more on the question of whether you think all polymorphed creatures should eventually take on the mental characteristics of the form. If yes I would do the monthly save.<br />Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08864993221502918896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-59232152577840909602014-05-29T09:51:50.657-04:002014-05-29T09:51:50.657-04:00I agree with Clovis, above, that HD could be tied ...I agree with Clovis, above, that HD could be tied to caster HD for an elegant result.<br /><br />Here's a suggested change: change "creature" to "mortal creature" or, perhaps a bit awkwardly, "planar native creature." This should allow you to bump up the HD cap and eliminate the undead-specific text while still avoiding any shenanigans from characters changing into undead, elementals, invisible stalkers, etc.<br /><br />I see no problem whatsoever with PCs turning into flies for a little scouting. They're the proverbial perfect spies, yes, but are so helpless and such weak flyers that I don't see any potential for abuse - few magic-users should want to spend more than the minimum necessary time in a form where even the smallest birds, lizards, amphibians, spiders, etc. are mortal threats.Confanityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361443460498670841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-71143155461745116972014-05-29T07:01:58.950-04:002014-05-29T07:01:58.950-04:00oops, should end
but would ASSUME the attack dama...oops, should end<br />but would ASSUME the attack damage of 2d6 x2 <br />as well as AC -2. Clovis Cithoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18208194219083373456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-14253682146389974112014-05-29T06:50:09.288-04:002014-05-29T06:50:09.288-04:00Consider,
Maximal hitdice of assumed or new form m...Consider,<br />Maximal hitdice of assumed or new form may not exceed that of half the spell casters level; i.e., a 10th level mage could become a 5HD tiger, but caster would have to be at least 12th level to allow the form of a 6HD troll. <br />This eliminates the need to set a size limit.<br />…<br />Also, <br />regardless of new form, attack bonus (not damage) of the polymorphed individual is unchanged. This caveat prevents the caster from turning low level allies into killing machines.<br /> i.e., a first level fighter polymorphed into an androsphinx would retain his original attack bonus of +1, but would retain the attack damage of 2d6 x2 as well as AC -2. <br />Clovis Cithoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18208194219083373456noreply@blogger.com