tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post2634093388705270314..comments2024-03-15T11:16:44.045-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: G3 Hall of the Fire Giant KingDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-91525758842504329402021-06-05T11:00:01.026-04:002021-06-05T11:00:01.026-04:00That's a great battle report! You're right...That's a great battle report! You're right that giants got even tougher -- I think 2E doubled their hit dice, and then 3E added another increment for Constitution bonuses (so, tripled), etc. <br /><br />OD&D had much more restrictive divination options. Definitely no fey scout cloud. Wizard eye only went 12" (120 feet). Elementals had to stay within 24" of caster (240 feet).<br /><br />The one killer app for that would be the Crystal Ball, which was among the most prized magic items in the game. Even that had some wiggle room for the DM, and the wizard would go mad if they used it twice in a day.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-54233583158903330282021-06-04T14:05:56.741-04:002021-06-04T14:05:56.741-04:00We played this with 5e, which if anything might be...We played this with 5e, which if anything might be even tougher, as giants gained in relative power (see https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/04/history-real-monster-evolution.html).<br /><br />At level 10 the players had access to summoning faeries and elementals, so they set up camp in a safe distrance, hidden behind a stone shape wall in a cave, and they used a summoned earth elemental to scout out the whole underbelly of the place moving through stone and on occasion peeking into rooms. This allowed them to find and free the titan, who then caused a good amount of distraction and losses in the giant ranks. There may be other divination tactics possible, too -- I do not know if OD&D already had arcane eye, or the ability to conjure a whole cloud of intelligent, invisible flying fey that coudl scout for you.<br /><br />We played this as part of an ongong campaign that lead to the D1-3 series, so they had no interest to battle the giants, and once they found the exit to the underdark in this manner, they just avoided the whole thing. That is obviously not something you could do in a tournament, but I'd count it as beating the challenge.<br /><br />As a result of this, we now rule that earth elementals have a hard time orienting themselves while moving around blinded in rock, and we have it make a good amount of rumbling noises, to make such tactics at least more difficult. Groodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-31459717147939972342013-07-28T12:26:02.964-04:002013-07-28T12:26:02.964-04:00I see, use it to narrow the entrance -- that's...I see, use it to narrow the entrance -- that's clever! Great story.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-12820445067667010522013-07-28T03:29:44.475-04:002013-07-28T03:29:44.475-04:00No magic bullet, indeed! As I indicated, we still ...No magic bullet, indeed! As I indicated, we still had to try and try again... but it was useful, especially in creating a narrow opening from the entry hall to the throne room. Summoned monsters and animals (especially affected by Animal Growth - thanks, druid!) helped a lot, too, in giving the giants other things to think about. It was still a bloodbath, though; I can't recall how many fighters one of our players went through...LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-31664514013089662392013-07-23T13:25:18.958-04:002013-07-23T13:25:18.958-04:00Thanks for the kind words! Glad you found the blog...Thanks for the kind words! Glad you found the blog. :-)<br /><br />Controlling the battlefield is a pretty good idea. One thing is (when I checked the details last time), spells like "wall of stone" technically can't block off the entirety of the very large halls in G3. Like the area-of-effect makes a 20x12' wall or so, which I suppose giants could climb over (it's like head high) or even break through. So a good delaying tactic, but not a silver bullet (I think). Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-47056312645023508092013-07-23T10:21:21.056-04:002013-07-23T10:21:21.056-04:00Great blog, as I'm discovering is usual for yo...Great blog, as I'm discovering is usual for you. One note: last time I played through G3 (years and years ago), I seem to recall that our magic-user (who WAS allowed to memorize duplicate spells) used the various Wall spells to control the battlefield and the flow of combat. It didn't allow us to beat the module in one assault... or two... or three, for that matter... but it did help a great deal.LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-35455574543152324572012-12-16T22:41:19.369-05:002012-12-16T22:41:19.369-05:00Paul, thanks for the kind words! I do think for ha...Paul, thanks for the kind words! I do think for having the rules be streamlined enough that my own brain can be the real-time "operating system" has made me very happy running my games. It keeps the pacing snappy and what's happening is also easier to explain to new players.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-36769979157275438552012-12-15T11:46:05.611-05:002012-12-15T11:46:05.611-05:00Thanks for the interesting blog, I'm glad I fo...Thanks for the interesting blog, I'm glad I found it.<br /><br />I've been turning the AD&D rules into a computer program, so that I can start playing and use all the weapon vs armor silliness and tables without it all slowing me down.<br /><br />Now you have me thinking of going back to OD&D or even Chainmail and implementing those too.Paul Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07898832053232288738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-3981127054799960532012-12-14T20:39:00.114-05:002012-12-14T20:39:00.114-05:00That's a nice catch, thanks for that.That's a nice catch, thanks for that.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-90846604949908308962012-12-14T20:03:13.040-05:002012-12-14T20:03:13.040-05:00Duplicate spell memorization is explicitly allowed...Duplicate spell memorization is explicitly allowed in AD&D: PHB p.40Paul Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07898832053232288738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-17453259318547858992012-07-24T12:47:06.466-04:002012-07-24T12:47:06.466-04:00^ Actually, haste-with-doubled-attacks pretty much...^ Actually, <i>haste</i>-with-doubled-attacks pretty much alone broke the game when we played through G1, <a href="http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2010/04/g1-steading-of-hill-giant-chief.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. And as mentioned, most of the damage meted out was from fighters (already with 2 attacks), so doubling that would make a big difference and also slow down combat a lot (ironically).<br /><br />And as a side note, I also rewrite <i>darkness</i> because I super don't like the globe-of-unlight effect there. For me, it extinguishes any existing lights, but it's only an instantaneous effect. I've had good responses from players on that ruling.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-90535955509806174712012-07-23T18:57:11.073-04:002012-07-23T18:57:11.073-04:00Sounds like you might have let them have the stand...Sounds like you might have let them have the standard Haste effect without a big problem (expecially since Haste has a low duration and they could carry only one per caster). <br /><br />What about casualties? If a Giant drops at 0 HP and the PCs withdraw soon after, wouldn't a Giantess bandage and save him? This could draw out the adventure if the PCs use hit and run tactics. Similarly, if a dead Giant leaves behind some good equipment, another Giant could pick it up and use it in a subsequent assault. <br /><br />I like Silence as a sound-prevention spell, in the same way Darkness is a light-prevention spell. Based on that it makes more sense as a Wiz spell. The Cleric version should be a shamanistic hunter-boon exactly as you describe for Elven Boots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-55001310220195620042012-07-17T15:08:32.963-04:002012-07-17T15:08:32.963-04:00@ Allan: Great observation about the spells being ...@ Allan: Great observation about the spells being accurate for OD&D specifications. I knew this module was being developed and played prior to AD&D publication, but I never picked up on that aspect. Thanks!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-62699314846141859472012-07-16T15:13:25.163-04:002012-07-16T15:13:25.163-04:00Gary's PCs in the Rogues Gallery weren't a...Gary's PCs in the Rogues Gallery weren't authentic stats/etc., although those published in WG5 seem a bit more likely to be legit. In RG, Robilar, Arrarat, and Valuerius are accurate, from the Lake Geneva Greyhawk gaming crowd. (I don't remember offhand if Ernie's PCs are accurate or not). Also worth noting: high PC stats were more common (and less significant) in OD&D, since there were many ways to raise/lower stats in Castle Greyhawk, El Raja Key, etc.<br /><br />WRT the tourney characters: they're the cream of the crop, and in OD&D having high stats is not nearly as much of a big help as in AD&D (the tourney PCs are clearly statted for OD&D, which you can validate by placement of spells by level---some are higher/lower in AD&D---and by the number memorized per level, which follow OD&D conventions). <br /><br />Allan.grodoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800184312511280050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-65190870797073686472012-07-16T12:17:13.205-04:002012-07-16T12:17:13.205-04:00@ Baquies: Good question, but no, silence is speci...@ Baquies: Good question, but no, <i>silence</i> is specifically one of the D&D spells that I am least found of. It's #5 on my reasons to get rid of clerics (<a href="http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/p/primary-house-rules.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>). Even if it was allowed, my interpretation would be to function like <i>boots of elvenkind</i>, and not in an offensive manner (<a href="http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2007/03/od-spell-adjudications.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>). <br /><br />@ Hedgehobbit: Good point; I think it's pretty clear that Gary just arbitrarily picked scored and hit points for published materials (not rolling them). I find pretty reliably that his "boss" monster tends to have MAX-1 hit points assigned (and PC's in his Rogues Gallery product also have high scores).Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-89469426145077272162012-07-16T09:53:56.751-04:002012-07-16T09:53:56.751-04:00I was just looking over the pregens and they are r...I was just looking over the pregens and they are ridiculous. Seven of the nine have 18s and one has double 18s (an elf naturally). Of the two without 18s one has double 17s and the other has double 16s. I don't know what method Gary was using back in the day but it certainly wasn't 3d6 in order. <br /><br />I'm really surprised how much power inflation there was even as early as 1978.Hedgehobbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17606283586332210195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-78542600534419503642012-07-16T09:17:15.000-04:002012-07-16T09:17:15.000-04:00Due to situations like the below, would you consid...Due to situations like the below, would you consider putting clerical spells back in as wizard spells or some other fashion?<br /><br />"And you might also think to consider a silence spell, except with no clerics in my game, neither is that spell. At any rate, triggering the alarm essentially set the tone for the rest of the game."Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.com