tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post1364105703063728633..comments2024-03-26T15:35:56.004-04:00Comments on Delta's D&D Hotspot: Rappan Athuk Week – Part TwoDeltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-71313279893127297542017-07-14T18:39:49.633-04:002017-07-14T18:39:49.633-04:00I broadly agree with that. I think the optimal sol...I broadly agree with that. I think the optimal solution is for other (stronger) party members to just haul people up and down. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-20781513219938895242017-07-14T18:38:39.656-04:002017-07-14T18:38:39.656-04:00That's a great link, thanks for sharing that. ...That's a great link, thanks for sharing that. The thing is, if I search Google Images for "pointe-du-hoc ww2 climbing", there's quite a few photos... and all the photos of men climbing are neither just ropes nor rope-and-wall but simple ladders with a crossbar on a single rope every few feet. <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=pointe-du-hoc+ww2+climbing&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjwvozi6YnVAhUBRz4KHd7DCTAQ_AUICigB&biw=1600&bih=760" rel="nofollow">Example search.</a> Of course the narrative does refer to, "plain three-quarter-inch ropes, toggle ropes, or rope ladders" but I wish we had photos of the plain ropes in use. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-68048405232219711132017-07-13T19:02:45.298-04:002017-07-13T19:02:45.298-04:00I think the confounding factor here is that Delta&...I think the confounding factor here is that Delta's players feel 'obligated' to use the rope. IF the rope ascent is a requirement THEN it feels too deadly.<br /><br />Possible Solution: The village sells rope ladders. These should be what a strength 5 wizard climbs.<br /><br />Actually using a rope for 90' should be arguable MORE difficult. I doubt I could climb it after a hard day AT ALL. Rope use should be harder but more beneficial.Randohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07051785965103327520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-73976149014788953962017-07-12T20:23:56.291-04:002017-07-12T20:23:56.291-04:00As an aside, a 1st-level fighter is probably prett...As an aside, a 1st-level fighter is probably pretty well equivalent to an Army Ranger, considering they're supposed to be veteran warriors a cut above the average professional soldier. Wizards wouldn't have that type of athletic experience to start with, sure, but by the time they're 4th level I would think that they'd be fairly competent and things like climbing and rappelling simply from "on the job training."Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14285793254382192231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-43495056929552394032017-07-12T16:32:28.614-04:002017-07-12T16:32:28.614-04:00'Trained rangers' is being somewhat genero...'Trained rangers' is being somewhat generous since the description says they're freshman cadets in Ranger School - they want to be rangers, but a lot of them won't make it. They're also going for speed. As for the woman in the gym, by the looks of it she could continue for a much longer climb, it's just that the gym ceiling isn't high enough to accommodate a much taller wall. I don't have any videos to show, but I know that large cliffs have indeed been scaled using nothing but ropes and grappling hooks - for example, at Pointe-du-Hoc.<br /><br />http://www.worldwar2history.info/D-Day/cliff.htmlDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14285793254382192231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-32845601121344176242017-07-12T14:31:33.746-04:002017-07-12T14:31:33.746-04:00I think that the bonus increases in the following ...I think that the bonus increases in the following way:<br /><br />Wall < direction < equipment < angle<br /><br />The wall can help, but equipment helps more because it can let you rest hanging.<br /><br />Climbing downward in vertical (aka. abseiling/rappel) is easier than a slope upwards.<br /><br />Climbing a horizontal surface upside down is the hardest.<br /><br />Also... In those video, they use really thick ropes which I don't think is the ones used to climb long distances (too much weight, hard to match equipment).G. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-91240831840736051622017-07-12T12:55:42.930-04:002017-07-12T12:55:42.930-04:00I should check out those Veins of the Earth rules....I should check out those Veins of the Earth rules.<br /><br />I must say, I'm not totally convinced up the upwards-rope-and-wall being a lot easier than a rope by itself. Both need some kind of special technique. And most examples of rope-and-wall tend to be relatively short, like 10' or so -- which crucially makes the angle of the rope from top to climber rather severe (assisting leverage). If the rope got much longer, like 100', the angle would be negligible, and I don't think it would give much advantage. <br /><br />Have you seen example of ~100' rope-and-wall climbs up? Even the trained rangers <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBhFQ80Qw7U" rel="nofollow">here</a> don't have a super easy time of it. Or consider length/angle in play here <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-LHd4uQc4" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-11576316379600238612017-07-12T12:44:37.774-04:002017-07-12T12:44:37.774-04:00To be fair, that video is a free-hanging rope, whi...To be fair, that video is a free-hanging rope, which is a much more difficult climb than when there's a wall to plant your feet on and "walk" up.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14285793254382192231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-54283986727005016432017-07-11T21:23:20.892-04:002017-07-11T21:23:20.892-04:00Ok. You sold me... Rope climb up is hard as f*** w...Ok. You sold me... Rope climb up is hard as f*** without climbing equipment.<br />I have done some abseiling with just figure eight and carabiner (I think) and it was easy.<br />But as we say here in Brazil "Downwards every Saint helps" (means something like your "In a calm sea every man is a pilot").<br />Also... Veins of the Earth have some nice rules about climbing.G. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-51041400236039448252017-07-11T20:42:20.322-04:002017-07-11T20:42:20.322-04:00I agree with 30 ft/minute as a reasonable-ish spee...I agree with 30 ft/minute as a reasonable-ish speed; that's what I just inserted into my house rules yesterday, in fact. Although it can vary tremendously. And the other thing is that I play with 1 round = 10 sec, so that's only 5' per round for me. <br /><br />But I disagree that even with no immediate pressure such a climb would be risk-free. As an example, here's an obviously athletic person, with no heavy burden, in a safe and well-lit location, with a coach advising, who <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR4D4oCG_aQ" rel="nofollow">can't even get started climbing a rope in several tries</a>. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-37774418949823499962017-07-11T20:35:05.652-04:002017-07-11T20:35:05.652-04:00That's great!That's great!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-58278487441499434962017-07-11T15:50:23.119-04:002017-07-11T15:50:23.119-04:00Hm, well, I certainly agree with you about wizards...Hm, well, I certainly agree with you about wizards with a 5 STR! Ha! Yeah, like you, as difficult as it may be, I don't think I can cotton to the idea of NO risk for climbing... it just doesn't feel like old school D&D if it's completely safe!LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-22365145284546406842017-07-11T12:59:08.550-04:002017-07-11T12:59:08.550-04:00As someone who's players got cocky in the cave...As someone who's players got cocky in the caves of Chaos this weekend, these are a joy to read.Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-14450832643223185912017-07-11T09:57:05.050-04:002017-07-11T09:57:05.050-04:00I agree with your players. I would make a Climb ch...I agree with your players. I would make a Climb check if they are trying to climb in one round and no check if they are trying to climb in one turn.<br /><br />I am assuming the rope is not too long. I would let them climb up to 30 feet of rope per round based in the rope climb records (+/- 50 feet per round).<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_climbingG. B. Verashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07321019711309446662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-12730703727928840612017-07-11T09:51:53.311-04:002017-07-11T09:51:53.311-04:00This is a very hard question to answer (and I'...This is a very hard question to answer (and I've tried). Also, we're talking medieval-level ropes/equipment here (no carabiners, safety harnesses, etc.) Even less than 100 years ago people were using a "body belay" which is no longer in use (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belaying#Body_belay). <br /><br />90' is a long friggin' way down and I'm pretty settled on the idea that there needs to be some risk to climbing for inexperienced people (e.g., a wizard with 5 Strength). In the past I've had scenes of the whole party dangling on ropes over infinite abysses at no risk, and I just don't think that's right. <br /><br />On the other hand, in the future I probably should explicitly throw out the risk and other options, like: Belaying, safety rope, hauling poor climbers up/down, etc. Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2170237526012357403.post-16489927835488620212017-07-11T08:18:26.737-04:002017-07-11T08:18:26.737-04:00I suppose I can't blame them either for the cl...I suppose I can't blame them either for the climbing thing. Barring special circumstances that make the climbing difficult, such as rain, old or unreliable ropes, etc., perhaps it would be best to assume that they can ascend and descend successfully without problem provided they have sufficient time and equipment. Mind you, I would count "wearing armor" as a complicating factor, so... and of course, they would perhaps not be so fixated on this if they weren't convinced that a long and deadly climb is the only way to access the dungeon. What are, incidentally, the real world stats on serious/fatal climbing accidents with competent climbers? LWSCHURTZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06635573516962732975noreply@blogger.com